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Significance of -E- in Paxette lenses?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Significance of -E- in Paxette lenses? Reply with quote
I am curious to know about the -E- in some Paxette lenses. I know it is not brand specific as Steinheil, Staeble and Roeschlien all have lenses with this -E- designation.

What does -E- mean?


PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The -E- means that it will work with a coupled rangefinder camera. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Lars


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You`re welcome, my favorites Braun Paxette m39 lenses are the Roeschlien 135mm and the Lineogon 35mm Wink


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Avoid the Staeble ones, I have had thee of them, all awful.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
The -E- means that it will work with a coupled rangefinder camera. Wink


That's set me wondering - was the Paxette mount unique to the Paxette or did other makers use the same system? If I remember correctly, there were several makers producing interchangeable lens cameras broadly similar in quality and specification to the Paxettes.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Avoid the Staeble ones, I have had thee of them, all awful.


I have a strange, and probably even weird, fascination with 'awful' lenses. Just how 'awful' is awful?

If you've got the time and inclination I really would like to see some examples from one or other of your Staeble lenses. My first 35mm camera was a Paxette Im, back in 1958. I bought another one last year, with the Roeschlein Pointar lens, but the shutter promptly died on me so I've never used it.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
You`re welcome, my favorites Braun Paxette m39 lenses are the Roeschlien 135mm and the Lineogon 35mm Wink


Yes the Lineogon is on my radar Wink

My stash is modest at the moment,

Roeschlein Luxon 2/50
Roeschlein Telenar 3.8/90
Steinheil Quinar 3.5/85
Steinheil Cassarit 2.8/50
Staeble Color Ultralit 2.8/50


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Avoid the Staeble ones, I have had thee of them, all awful.


I have a strange, and probably even weird, fascination with 'awful' lenses. Just how 'awful' is awful?

If you've got the time and inclination I really would like to see some examples from one or other of your Staeble lenses. My first 35mm camera was a Paxette Im, back in 1958. I bought another one last year, with the Roeschlein Pointar lens, but the shutter promptly died on me so I've never used it.


I had the 5.6/90 or was it 5.6/85 and posted samples here, you should be able to find the thread with a little searching. Not sure if I posted samples from the other two, one was a 45mm and it was bad.

Awful as in not capable of making a picture of sufficient quality to be presentable, among the worst lenses I've owned.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ha ha Laughing

Well, I agree about the 85mm. It isn`t great and it is the weakest point of the Braun Paxette m39 lenses. Most of the 50`s are ok. The Lineogon and Roeschlien are more than ok and just as good as several LTM lenses Wink

The Braun Paxette II cameras has different coupling than the Leica and similar copies. The Leica cameras has a pin and the Braun Paxette has a ring inside the mount that you can push back.

Look how horrible the Lineogon is on A7R!


And what about the ISCO Westron 35mm, I will not recommend this lens Wink


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey, Nordentro - those really look disgustingly bad on my screen, absolutely dreadful Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never had the Lineogon, I had Staeble 45, 85 and 135mm and they were all what I would call awful. Nicely made in aluminium, looked very nice, just never sharp, results were 'muddy'.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
Nordentro wrote:
The -E- means that it will work with a coupled rangefinder camera. Wink


That's set me wondering - was the Paxette mount unique to the Paxette or did other makers use the same system? If I remember correctly, there were several makers producing interchangeable lens cameras broadly similar in quality and specification to the Paxettes.


This is in my collection, it uses Paxette lenses. Made by Neidig also known as the Perlux IIa



PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice, this camera should be coupled as well. Can you see a movable ring inside the mount? Surprised


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I never had the Lineogon, I had Staeble 45, 85 and 135mm and they were all what I would call awful. Nicely made in aluminium, looked very nice, just never sharp, results were 'muddy'.


Most of these Braun lenses are average, and some are not that great, but they have in general a good value.
They are all RF size lenses and you can get a camera with a lens from 10 - 30 euros which is even cheaper than USSR made RF lenses.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JohnBar wrote:
Nordentro wrote:
You`re welcome, my favorites Braun Paxette m39 lenses are the Roeschlien 135mm and the Lineogon 35mm Wink


Yes the Lineogon is on my radar Wink

My stash is modest at the moment,

Roeschlein Luxon 2/50
Roeschlein Telenar 3.8/90
Steinheil Quinar 3.5/85
Steinheil Cassarit 2.8/50
Staeble Color Ultralit 2.8/50


Wow, you have the Luxon Very Happy I never had that lens... And the Steinheil 85mm too Surprised


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I never had the Lineogon, I had Staeble 45, 85 and 135mm and they were all what I would call awful. Nicely made in aluminium, looked very nice, just never sharp, results were 'muddy'.


Most of these Braun lenses are average, and some are not that great, but they have in general a good value.
They are all RF size lenses and you can get a camera with a lens from 10 - 30 euros which is even cheaper than USSR made RF lenses.


I think there is probably a lot of copy variation with some of them, my Staeble-Kata 2.8/45 was so bad I can only think it could be faulty, something not spaced right or misaligned, it had such high levels of SA that even at f8 and f11, everything had a conspicuous glow. If it's a triplet or tessar, then I expect the issue was incorrect spacing of the front and middle elements as it's a well-known old trick of large format shooters to increase the spacing of the front two elements to get uncorrected SA and corresponding glow for portraits.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, and some of them have bad filter ring, dents come easily the metal is almost like silver paper Wink


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Yes, and some of them have bad filter ring, dents come easily the metal is almost like silver paper Wink


1950s items made of aluminium are often melted down wartime aircraft, so the aluminium barrels of these lenses are quite likely to formerly have been part of a Messerschmidt, Junkers, Dornier etc. Smile


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting, the eternal cycle of mother earth Wink


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Nice, this camera should be coupled as well. Can you see a movable ring inside the mount? Surprised


yes this is coupled. I had thought of engineering an adapter for my Zorki but quickly realised when looking at the rangefinder coupling that the lens mechanism moved a differently to Leica type. Using a target exactly 5 feet away (1.5metres approx) the Industar on my Zorki agreed, but with the lens from this camera it read 9 feet (just under 3 metres) so a coupled adapter is out of the question.

The common name for 'E' lenses mount is B39 (Braun)


PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Interesting, the eternal cycle of mother earth Wink


Yes. My dad has a 1958 Rover car, it has several aluminium body panels, this is because there was a huge supply of cheap aluminium from scrapped wartime aircraft. This is also why Land Rovers had aluminium bodies.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:


Wow, you have the Luxon Very Happy I never had that lens... And the Steinheil 85mm too Surprised


Yes I was lucky to find them in new conditions.

The Luxon is good and has fantail flares - so a hood is required
you can see some Luxon images here
http://www.flickriver.com/search/luxon+roeschlein/

I want a 2/50 Quinon but in 2 years search I have never seen it sell below €200 at auction.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I never had the Lineogon, I had Staeble 45, 85 and 135mm and they were all what I would call awful. Nicely made in aluminium, looked very nice, just never sharp, results were 'muddy'.


That 85mm Staeble lens certainly doesn't get much love. The listing at allphotolenses.com agrees with your assessment. https://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_3282.html

I've had one for a while and realised I had no test shots. I thought they were better than expected, not brilliant, but also not terrible, especially given the perhaps non-premium market that Braun aimed for with this camera.


This picture is a corner 100% crop at F/5.6, wide open.


This picture is a center 100% crop at F/11. The house with the vertical blinds is about 250m distance away.


Final pic is a general frame at F8.

My assessment is that the lens, at least this copy, is usable, and if putting a film through a Paxxette or Dejur D3, I wouldn't hesistate to add that tiny lens to the kit.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That must be the Telexon. The Telon is not a very good performer. Though, despite others bad experience I find the Staeble Choro very good as well. My copy of the Kata is hazy so not a fair comparison.
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