View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 4066 Location: Switzerland
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:14 pm Post subject: Nikkor tele zooms compared |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
In another thread the question "Nikkor Ai 4.5/80-200mm vs Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm" was discussed. I have compared these two lenses today, and while bein at work I have added the other well known manual focus Nikon tele zooms in the 80-200mm f4 range as well - and the famous Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 4/80-200mm:
Nikkor Ai 4.5/80-200mm (1st computation)
Nikkor Ai 4.5/80-200mm (2nd computation)
Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm
Nikon E AiS 4/70-210mm
Zeiss CY Vario-Sonnar 4/80-200mm
* All lenses were tested at infinity, using a 24 MP FF Sony A7II.
* Tested at three focal lengths (minimum [70mm or 80mm], at 135mm, and at maximum (200mm or 210mm). *
* Tested wide open (f4 or f4.5) and at f8
* Both the center and corner performance were checked
Generally speaking, the differences between those Nikon tele zooms are remarkably small.
It is true, however, that the center of the Nikkor 4/80-200mm at 200mm f4 has slightly a lower contrast than the other three Nikon tele zooms (and clearly a lower contrast than the Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm).
First a 100% crop from the center of the Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm at 200mm f4:
Now the Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm:
The other three Nikkor / Nikon E tele zooms are closer to the Zeiss than to the AiS 4/80-200mm. If I would not have heard similar complaints about the AiS 4/80-200mm before, I might even suspect a defective sample (though mine looks great). However at other focal lengths the differences between the AiS 4/80-200 and the other Nikon tele zooms are much smaller (image center). _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 4066 Location: Switzerland
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
Here are three corner crops, also taken at f=200mm and wide open - first the first computation of the Nikkor 4.5/80-200mm:
Now the later Nikkor AiS 4/80-200mm:
And finally the Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm:
I can't see much difference between the two Nikkors; the Zeiss, however, has less CAs and looks cleaner. _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 3217 Location: The Netherlands
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
caspert79 wrote:
I’ve had the 80-200/4.5 n ai in the past, and I found it quite good for everyday use; it was very cheap (considerably cheaper than the f/4 version). And from what I see here there’s not really a reason to buy the f/4; the difference in speed is negligible. _________________ For Sale:
Steinheil Auto D Tele Quinar 135mm f/2.8 (Exa)
ISCO Isconar 100mm f/4 (Exa)
Steinheil Cassarit 50mm f/2.8 M39 (Paxette)
I'm always interested in trading lenses! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 4066 Location: Switzerland
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
The following is about corner performance wide open!
At f=135mm, again the Zeiss is clearly the best of the lenses compared here. Both the Ai 4.5/80-200mm (2nd computation) and the 4/80-200mm are next - with nearly as much resolution as the Zeiss, but a much lower contrast. The 4.5/80-200mm (1st computation) and the Nikon E 4/70-210mm have less corner resolution, but the difference is not that big.
At f=80mm (70mm) the Zeiss again has the best contrast, but slightly more CAs than the 1st computation of the Nikkor 4.5/80-200mm. While nominally both 4.5/80-200mm computations are 80mm at the short end, the 2nd computation has a shorter focal length than the first one. Apart from this, it also has a slightly reduced resolution and more CAs. The AiS 4/80-200mm is nearly as good as the Nikkor 4.5/80-200mm (I) and the Zeiss. Finally the Nikon E 4/70-210mm: At f=70mm its corners clearly have less constrast and less resolution than the other four lenses (which all start at f=80mm, BTW). The bigger zoom range (3x instead of 2.5x) comes at a price.
S
EDIT as soon as I have time I'll post the corresponding crops from all lenses
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
flavio81
Joined: 20 Mar 2022 Posts: 35 Location: Lima, Peru
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
flavio81 wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
The following is about corner performance wide open!
At f=135mm, again the Zeiss is clearly the best of the lenses compared here. Both the Ai 4.5/80-200mm (2nd computation) and the 4/80-200mm are next - with nearly as much resolution as the Zeiss, but a much lower contrast. The 4.5/80-200mm (1st computation) and the Nikon E 4/70-210mm have less corner resolution, but the difference is not that big.
At f=80mm (70mm) the Zeiss again has the best contrast, but slightly more CAs than the 1st computation of the Nikkor 4.5/80-200mm. While nominally both 4.5/80-200mm computations are 80mm at the short end, the 2nd computation has a shorter focal length than the first one. Apart from this, it also has a slightly reduced resolution and more CAs. The AiS 4/80-200mm is nearly as good as the Nikkor 4.5/80-200mm (I) and the Zeiss. Finally the Nikon E 4/70-210mm: At f=70mm its corners clearly have less constrast and less resolution than the other four lenses (which all start at f=80mm, BTW). The bigger zoom range (3x instead of 2.5x) comes at a price.
S
EDIT as soon as I have time I'll post the corresponding crops from all lenses
S |
Hi Stevemark,
Thanks for doing interesting comparisons.
I would suggest introducing a good 85mm prime and a good 200mm prime lens into the comparison, as a reference point.
For the 85mm perhaps I could suggest Nikkor-H 85/1.8 or FD 85/1.8, or your favorite Minolta; for the 200mm i'd suggest Nikkor 200/4 AI or whichever you know is a good 200mm lens, perhaps one of the 2.8 lenses stopped down.
It is often repeated how zooms can be "as good as a prime lens" but it would be best to know through actual pictures.
Best regards,
F |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 4066 Location: Switzerland
|
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
flavio81 wrote: |
I would suggest introducing a good 85mm prime and a good 200mm prime lens into the comparison, as a reference point.
For the 85mm perhaps I could suggest Nikkor-H 85/1.8 or FD 85/1.8, or your favorite Minolta; for the 200mm i'd suggest Nikkor 200/4 AI or whichever you know is a good 200mm lens, perhaps one of the 2.8 lenses stopped down.
It is often repeated how zooms can be "as good as a prime lens" but it would be best to know through actual pictures.
Best regards,
F |
Good idea - quite often I did it, especially when doing large tests. This time it was more a "quick'n'dirty" comparison since the weather / light was not completely stable. Good enough for me to see how those lenses are performing, but not really good enough (=slightly changing light conditions) to publish all. I'll therefore have to repeat it once the light is really stable - and I can include a few Nikkors such as the K Nikkor 1.8/85mm, the K Nikkor 2.8/135mm and the Ai 4/200mm.
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 1211 Location: Winnipeg Canada
|
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doc Sharptail wrote:
There were three different variants of the f4.5 Nikkor 80-200.
The best of them is the final n=new variant, with the baffle over the rear element.
It is an optically improved variant over the two earlier lenses.
-D.S. _________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas
|
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cooltouch wrote:
D.S., I have the last version of the 4.5 model, which I bought about 12 years ago. I've found it to be a very good every day zoom, and have never found the need to find anything better, although I do own at least one 80-200 that is better, but it's also much heavier, and it cost quite a bit more -- the Tamron 30A SP 80-200 f/2.8 LD. Setting the Tamron aside for the moment, though, the Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 has been regarded for years as one of the best 80-200s made and I see no reason to differ from this conclusion. _________________ Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Doc Sharptail
Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 1211 Location: Winnipeg Canada
|
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doc Sharptail wrote:
In no particular order, differences between the F4 80-200 and the F4.5 80-200 N:
Zoom creep:
The F4 is the winner here by a long shot, with it's more modern construction.
My particular copy had seen little use.
Rendering:
The 4.5 is preferred by me, but this is a matter of subjective personal taste, rather than optical performance, especially for quick (sometimes wide-open) candid portraiture.
Sharpness:
The old 4.5 N clearly beats the 4 at the 80mm mark. By 200mm, they are about equal, with the 4 having slightly better edge definition wide-open.
Ergonomics:
The 4.5 is my choice here for the space it takes up in the bag.
It takes a bit of practice to get used to the slippery sliding one-touch zoom collar.
The reduction in weight is noticeable when the 4.5 is in the bag instead of the f4.
My 103-A has a very slight edge in sharpness at infinity over both at it's 210 mark, but this may not be a fair comparison due to the difference in focal length.
-D.S. _________________
D-810, F2, FTN.
35mm f2 O.C. nikkor
50 f2 H nikkor, 50 f 1.4 AI-s, 135 f3.5 Q,
50 f2 K nikkor 2x, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 35-105 3.5-4.5 A/I-s, 200mm f4 Micro A/I, partial list.
"Ain't no half-way" -S.R.V.
"Oh Yeah... Alright" -Paul Simon |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|