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Questions about Helios lenses
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:34 am    Post subject: Questions about Helios lenses Reply with quote
Hi. I have some questions about Helios lenses. I am about to get 3-4 Helios lenses. I want to get the Helios 44m-6 58mm f2.0, Helios 44-2 58mm f2.0, and Helios 40-2 85mm f1.5.
Is there much difference between these different versions? Do the more vintage ones have a different look than the more modern versions? Finally, can anyone recommend a good seller of these types of lenses?

Thanks for your help!!

-Charles


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about Helios lenses Reply with quote
charley5 wrote:
Hi. I have some questions about Helios lenses. I am about to get 3-4 Helios lenses. I want to get the Helios 44m-6 58mm f2.0, Helios 44-2 58mm f2.0, and Helios 40-2 85mm f1.5.
Is there much difference between these different versions? Do the more vintage ones have a different look than the more modern versions? Finally, can anyone recommend a good seller of these types of lenses?

Thanks for your help!!

-Charles


I am unable to see much difference between different versions of the 44. I have a 44-2 and a 44-4 and the pix look exactly the same to me. The 40-2 is a different beast altogether and a very nice lens. I see them all over eBay, and they are also sold on Etsy.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions about Helios lenses Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
charley5 wrote:
Hi. I have some questions about Helios lenses. I am about to get 3-4 Helios lenses. I want to get the Helios 44m-6 58mm f2.0, Helios 44-2 58mm f2.0, and Helios 40-2 85mm f1.5.
Is there much difference between these different versions? Do the more vintage ones have a different look than the more modern versions? Finally, can anyone recommend a good seller of these types of lenses?

Thanks for your help!!

-Charles


I am unable to see much difference between different versions of the 44. I have a 44-2 and a 44-4 and the pix look exactly the same to me. The 40-2 is a different beast altogether and a very nice lens. I see them all over eBay, and they are also sold on Etsy.


Great. Thanks. I just did some more research and I think there are differences between the 44, 44-2, and 44M.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Optically, I see no differences in the results obtained with my Helios 44-2 or my 44-M.
However, from the sheer practicality of using the lens in the field, the pre-set aperture in the 44-2 is rather more cumbersome than the semi-auto aperture in the 44-M, with it's A/M switch.
The filter size does vary. The 44-2 has a 49mm thread, the 44-M has a 52mm thread.
The Helios 44 was used on the Zenit 3m and others. It has a 39mm screw-thread mount and the registration distance is very slightly different to that of a "standard" M42 Pentax/Praktica type lens. In practice, this difference is probably only really noticed at full aperture and at infinity, so possibly not ideal for astro-photography or similar … under "normal" circumstances, stopping the aperture down to a more usual setting will give sufficient depth-of-field to cope with the variation.
On a Pentax K-mount body, the 44-2 can be a source of light leaks if using an OEM M42-PK adaptor. The base of the lens is comparatively small and doesn't quite cover all of the lens mount. This probably isn't an issue on any other make of camera.

Enjoy Smile


PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
Optically, I see no differences in the results obtained with my Helios 44-2 or my 44-M.
However, from the sheer practicality of using the lens in the field, the pre-set aperture in the 44-2 is rather more cumbersome than the semi-auto aperture in the 44-M, with it's A/M switch.
The filter size does vary. The 44-2 has a 49mm thread, the 44-M has a 52mm thread.
The Helios 44 was used on the Zenit 3m and others. It has a 39mm screw-thread mount and the registration distance is very slightly different to that of a "standard" M42 Pentax/Praktica type lens. In practice, this difference is probably only really noticed at full aperture and at infinity, so possibly not ideal for astro-photography or similar … under "normal" circumstances, stopping the aperture down to a more usual setting will give sufficient depth-of-field to cope with the variation.
On a Pentax K-mount body, the 44-2 can be a source of light leaks if using an OEM M42-PK adaptor. The base of the lens is comparatively small and doesn't quite cover all of the lens mount. This probably isn't an issue on any other make of camera.

Enjoy Smile


This is very helpful. Thanks, kypfer!


PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
Optically, I see no differences in the results obtained with my Helios 44-2 or my 44-M.
However, from the sheer practicality of using the lens in the field, the pre-set aperture in the 44-2 is rather more cumbersome than the semi-auto aperture in the 44-M, with it's A/M switch.
The filter size does vary. The 44-2 has a 49mm thread, the 44-M has a 52mm thread.
The Helios 44 was used on the Zenit 3m and others. It has a 39mm screw-thread mount and the registration distance is very slightly different to that of a "standard" M42 Pentax/Praktica type lens. In practice, this difference is probably only really noticed at full aperture and at infinity, so possibly not ideal for astro-photography or similar … under "normal" circumstances, stopping the aperture down to a more usual setting will give sufficient depth-of-field to cope with the variation.
On a Pentax K-mount body, the 44-2 can be a source of light leaks if using an OEM M42-PK adaptor. The base of the lens is comparatively small and doesn't quite cover all of the lens mount. This probably isn't an issue on any other make of camera.

Enjoy Smile


I couldn't add anything different to this.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Helios 40-2. I don't have an old Helios 40 to compare, but I know the older ones are heavier and have an odd front filter size. That's why I picked the newer version. It seemed slightly more practical.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Later Helios 44 lenses are sharper than the earlier ones the 44-m7 is supposed to be the sharpest. The earlier ones are supposed to be a bit swirlier. There are three main different lens bodies. The 44 and 44-2 are preset. 44m is the first auto aperture lens it still has a manual mode. From 44m-4 there is just auto mode and I don't like it's build quality. I think the 44m is a sturdier design.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
I have the Helios 40-2. I don't have an old Helios 40 to compare, but I know the older ones are heavier and have an odd front filter size. That's why I picked the newer version. It seemed slightly more practical.


Thank you, KEO.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Later Helios 44 lenses are sharper than the earlier ones the 44-m7 is supposed to be the sharpest. The earlier ones are supposed to be a bit swirlier. There are three main different lens bodies. The 44 and 44-2 are preset. 44m is the first auto aperture lens it still has a manual mode. From 44m-4 there is just auto mode and I don't like it's build quality. I think the 44m is a sturdier design.


Thank you. This is very helpful!


PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
All the 44's are more or less the same design, later versions are most likely refined somewhat to get higher sharpness but at the expense of the swirl, I prefer the swirl over more sharpness because I have other lenses for sharpness.

Helios 40 is much like the 44, it's all about the swirl, the 40's swirl is cranked to 11, it's also a big lens.

The 44 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 58/2 and the 40 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
All the 44's are more or less the same design, later versions are most likely refined somewhat to get higher sharpness but at the expense of the swirl, I prefer the swirl over more sharpness because I have other lenses for sharpness.

Helios 40 is much like the 44, it's all about the swirl, the 40's swirl is cranked to 11, it's also a big lens.

The 44 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 58/2 and the 40 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5.


Thanks for the info! Well, I am purchasing the range of them. They are cheap enough. I guess I will find out. I am actually not a big swirl fan, but from what I understand you can control the amount of swirl by varying the distance between the subject and background. Is that correct?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you are using google translate: https://radojuva.com/2015/04/gelios-44-helios/

and if you want to relax before sleeping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hJUyKs8Z08


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
If you are using google translate: https://radojuva.com/2015/04/gelios-44-helios/

and if you want to relax before sleeping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hJUyKs8Z08


Thanks! I already saw this YouTube video and it was very informative!


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
charley5 wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
All the 44's are more or less the same design, later versions are most likely refined somewhat to get higher sharpness but at the expense of the swirl, I prefer the swirl over more sharpness because I have other lenses for sharpness.

Helios 40 is much like the 44, it's all about the swirl, the 40's swirl is cranked to 11, it's also a big lens.

The 44 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 58/2 and the 40 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5.


Thanks for the info! Well, I am purchasing the range of them. They are cheap enough. I guess I will find out. I am actually not a big swirl fan, but from what I understand you can control the amount of swirl by varying the distance between the subject and background. Is that correct?

The swirl is at maximum at MFD, and becomes less as you focus further away.
Stopping down will reduce the effect quite quickly.
Also as the distance between the background and the plane of focus increases you will see a reduction of the effect, this is due to how the PSF causes things to be more diffuse as the distance increases, but the effect is still there.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
charley5 wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
All the 44's are more or less the same design, later versions are most likely refined somewhat to get higher sharpness but at the expense of the swirl, I prefer the swirl over more sharpness because I have other lenses for sharpness.

Helios 40 is much like the 44, it's all about the swirl, the 40's swirl is cranked to 11, it's also a big lens.

The 44 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 58/2 and the 40 is based off of the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5.


Thanks for the info! Well, I am purchasing the range of them. They are cheap enough. I guess I will find out. I am actually not a big swirl fan, but from what I understand you can control the amount of swirl by varying the distance between the subject and background. Is that correct?

The swirl is at maximum at MFD, and becomes less as you focus further away.
Stopping down will reduce the effect quite quickly.
Also as the distance between the background and the plane of focus increases you will see a reduction of the effect, this is due to how the PSF causes things to be more diffuse as the distance increases, but the effect is still there.


So close-up portraits will show more swirl in the background? Is that correct?
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