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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:19 pm Post subject: Need a help with identifying another super intriguing lens |
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olesia2015 wrote:
Hello to all forum users here! Recently I got super intriguing lens and I'm very curious to find out - what is this? Hope, that you might help me to identify it)
There is no any information on the lens body - no names, nothing. There is only aperture value marks, from which I can assume, that the maximum aperture of the lens is f2.3. I did some measurements and checkings and found out the the focal length of the lend is between 65 and 75mm. So its 65-75mm f2.3/2.0 lens.
The lens has M42 screw mount and 16 blades iris aperture. Now here is the most interesting part about this unit - this is macro lens, so it can focus up to 10-15cm distance. Also on the full frame sensor the lens is showing some little vignetting in the corners, so it might be made for small film size devices.
I just have no clue - what this lens was made for. It really looks like some cinema lens, but the macro ability of it is just making me wondering and super curious.
Do you have any ideas?
Here is how the lens looks like
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Here you may see the size comparison of the lens with converted to M42 mount OKS1-100-1 100mm
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
Here is some samples from the lens and Sony A7II camera, made on wide open aperture. Zero editing and corrections - just simple conversion from RAW to JPEG in Lightroom and thats it
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
This is a few shots on stopped down aperture (f4.0-f5.6)
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Abbazz
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 1098 Location: Jakarta
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Abbazz wrote:
Nice shots from an interesting lens. Seems like a DIY job.
Cheers!
Abbazz _________________ Il n'y a rien dans le monde qui n'ait son moment decisif, et le chef-d'oeuvre de la bonne conduite est de connaitre et de prendre ce moment. - Cardinal de Retz
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource:
http://artbig.com/ |
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:10 am Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
Abbazz wrote: |
Seems like a DIY job.
Cheers!
Abbazz |
Thank you, Abbazz! It looks like DIY (at least the lens helicoid looks like not original peace to me), but the lens unit itself looks and feels factory made. So far all my lens collector friends confirms it.
Researches are going on, anyhow) |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013 Posts: 306 Location: EU
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: |
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y wrote:
The swirl is very pleasing |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
I hope this doesn't send you off on a wild goose chase but the photograph looking down the barrel at the blades reminded me very much of looking down my Pentacon f4 200. And the design of the focusing ring is very much in the style of my Carl Zeiss Jena semi-automatic preset biotar.
Clues for thought only. Good luck with the hunt. |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2013 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
Yes, intriguing lens (I participated to that auction )
My first thought is that it is cinema lens. I think the indications are not f-stops, but t-stops. So it should be a f2 lens.
It looks like a planar type (but the curvated plane of field is puzzling me, usualy planar are better on this question). I thought it could be an OKS1-100-1 100/2, size looks similar. Coating looks to be from those years also (70's).
I have a J-25 100mm/2 which is older, but DIY body has the same style : http://pierretizien-photos.blogspot.fr/p/blog-page_17.html _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
y wrote: |
The swirl is very pleasing |
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
Sciolist wrote: |
I hope this doesn't send you off on a wild goose chase but the photograph looking down the barrel at the blades reminded me very much of looking down my Pentacon f4 200. And the design of the focusing ring is very much in the style of my Carl Zeiss Jena semi-automatic preset biotar.
Clues for thought only. Good luck with the hunt. |
Fortunately this lens has nothing similar with Pentacon lenses in terms of rarity.
Yes, the helicoid looks similar to "Zebra" type Zeiss and some other lenses, but I can't tell for sure yet - is it factory or custom made? |
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
BurstMox wrote: |
Yes, intriguing lens (I participated to that auction )
My first thought is that it is cinema lens. I think the indications are not f-stops, but t-stops. So it should be a f2 lens.
It looks like a planar type (but the curvated plane of field is puzzling me, usualy planar are better on this question). I thought it could be an OKS1-100-1 100/2, size looks similar. Coating looks to be from those years also (70's).
I have a J-25 100mm/2 which is older, but DIY body has the same style : http://pierretizien-photos.blogspot.fr/p/blog-page_17.html |
Thank you for your opinion and guesses. However, I can easily say that this lens is not from LOMO "army", cause the FL of the lens is clearly between 70 and 75mm (not longer for SURE), so from Russian vintage cinema lenses there is only few options: several variations of OKS 75mm lenses and RO2-2M 75mm f2.0 lens. But non of that lenses has even similar design of the lens unit, non of them has macro ability, non of them has such a vignetting on FF sensor and non of them has such a rendering and image curvature.
I rather thinking about old vintage cinema lens (maybe even prototype) kind of Dalmeyer, Wollensak, Kinoptik or even maybe Macro Plasmat. During next month I'll be able to give it to my lens master, who gonna disassemble the lens to see its optical design. This will give at least some more information and might be helpful the researches. |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2013 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
olesia2015 wrote: |
Thank you for your opinion and guesses. However, I can easily say that this lens is not from LOMO "army", cause the FL of the lens is clearly between 70 and 75mm (not longer for SURE), so from Russian vintage cinema lenses there is only few options: several variations of OKS 75mm lenses and RO2-2M 75mm f2.0 lens. But non of that lenses has even similar design of the lens unit, non of them has macro ability, non of them has such a vignetting on FF sensor and non of them has such a rendering and image curvature.
I rather thinking about old vintage cinema lens (maybe even prototype) kind of Dalmeyer, Wollensak, Kinoptik or even maybe Macro Plasmat. During next month I'll be able to give it to my lens master, who gonna disassemble the lens to see its optical design. This will give at least some more information and might be helpful the researches. |
Macro ability is only about the DIY adaptation. It does not say a lot about the original optical block used here. OKS and other lenses for 35mm cine camera start vignetting from 70mm (RO2-2M almost don't vignets, whereas RO3-3M vignets a lot). So I don't think it exclude the OKS/RO theory or other 35mm cine lenses. Exist the OKS9-75-1 75mm/2 which is a petzval design, for exemple. I never seen one, it's only in the documents.
Please tell us about what will say your master after he disassembled it. _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
BurstMox wrote: |
olesia2015 wrote: |
Thank you for your opinion and guesses. However, I can easily say that this lens is not from LOMO "army", cause the FL of the lens is clearly between 70 and 75mm (not longer for SURE), so from Russian vintage cinema lenses there is only few options: several variations of OKS 75mm lenses and RO2-2M 75mm f2.0 lens. But non of that lenses has even similar design of the lens unit, non of them has macro ability, non of them has such a vignetting on FF sensor and non of them has such a rendering and image curvature.
I rather thinking about old vintage cinema lens (maybe even prototype) kind of Dalmeyer, Wollensak, Kinoptik or even maybe Macro Plasmat. During next month I'll be able to give it to my lens master, who gonna disassemble the lens to see its optical design. This will give at least some more information and might be helpful the researches. |
Macro ability is only about the DIY adaptation. It does not say a lot about the original optical block used here. OKS and other lenses for 35mm cine camera start vignetting from 70mm (RO2-2M almost don't vignets, whereas RO3-3M vignets a lot). So I don't think it exclude the OKS/RO theory or other 35mm cine lenses. Exist the OKS9-75-1 75mm/2 which is a petzval design, for exemple. I never seen one, it's only in the documents.
Please tell us about what will say your master after he disassembled it. |
Yes, you're right regarding macro ability - it could be reached if this helicoid was custom made for this purpose.
Also 75mm RO and OKS lenses, as you clearly mentioned, has suuuuper slight vignetting in the corners on FF sensor. This "beast" vignettes a little stronger, but it also could me an "issue" with this specific helicoid, cause (as you can see from the posted samples) on closest (macro) focusing distance - there is no vignetting at all. And BTW, LOMO and RO lenses, with FL less then 75mm, can't be used on DSLR cameras due to the lack of back focal flange distance.
However, if you will look at the lens unit of this "creature" - it has nothing similar with lens design of the russian vintage cinema lenses. I can easily say it, because I used to have a lot of is and can spot on one with no problem)
Ans, as I said, the rendering of the lens really looks very different to LOMO lenses, so I hope that this lens lying closer to Macro Plasmat family - then to simple LOMO brothers)
I'll definitely let you know about the result of disassembling, after it will be made. |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2013 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
olesia2015 wrote: |
Yes, you're right regarding macro ability - it could be reached if this helicoid was custom made for this purpose.
Also 75mm RO and OKS lenses, as you clearly mentioned, has suuuuper slight vignetting in the corners on FF sensor. This "beast" vignettes a little stronger, but it also could me an "issue" with this specific helicoid, cause (as you can see from the posted samples) on closest (macro) focusing distance - there is no vignetting at all. And BTW, LOMO and RO lenses, with FL less then 75mm, can't be used on DSLR cameras due to the lack of back focal flange distance.
However, if you will look at the lens unit of this "creature" - it has nothing similar with lens design of the russian vintage cinema lenses. I can easily say it, because I used to have a lot of is and can spot on one with no problem)
Ans, as I said, the rendering of the lens really looks very different to LOMO lenses, so I hope that this lens lying closer to Macro Plasmat family - then to simple LOMO brothers)
I'll definitely let you know about the result of disassembling, after it will be made. |
About the vigneting, it is normal that vignetting disapear in close focus position. The vignetting is stronger when the lens is closer to infinity (so closer to sensor).
About the look of the lens unit, only you can see, hard to judge, but if you are used to those OKS, then I guess you're right . _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
olesia2015 wrote: |
Sciolist wrote: |
I hope this doesn't send you off on a wild goose chase but the photograph looking down the barrel at the blades reminded me very much of looking down my Pentacon f4 200. And the design of the focusing ring is very much in the style of my Carl Zeiss Jena semi-automatic preset biotar.
Clues for thought only. Good luck with the hunt. |
Fortunately this lens has nothing similar with Pentacon lenses in terms of rarity.
Yes, the helicoid looks similar to "Zebra" type Zeiss and some other lenses, but I can't tell for sure yet - is it factory or custom made? |
In regard to the Pentacon, I was thinking in terms of the diaphragm. In regard to the focusing ring, I was thinking of the knurling, which looks identical in style. |
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olesia2015
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 Posts: 41
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Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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olesia2015 wrote:
Ok, finally here is the conclusion from my local professional lens master) He was so busy, that was able to take a lens only few weeks ago.
This lens was made on the factory for sure. It looks a little, that it could be some DIY project, but based on the professional conclusion - this is definitely 100% factory product, what was mostly made for inner using. Thats means that it might be a prototype and this unit never been made for sale. Next, this lens has Planar type optical unit with 7/5 optical scheme (7 optical elements in 5 optical groups). True focal length of this lens is 73mm with wide open aperture of f2.3 (as it engraved on the aperture ring), so according to the factory standards it might be 70/75mm f2.0/2.3 lens. Basing on all this information + some extra test results, lens master told me that this 95% Soviet Russian cinema lens, which was made on factory for some specific project.
Last edited by olesia2015 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dickb
Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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dickb wrote:
Since you link to your ebay auction here, can I ask you to stop using false information in your auction titles? I find it very annoying when this auction comes up in a search for "Angenieux". There is no reason to think it is an Angenieux lens, you claim it to be a Russian lens, not Angenieux, not Wollensak. Likewise the "Kinoptik" in your Lomo lens auction. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10966 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Thanks for following up! _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16634 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
dickb wrote: |
Since you link to your ebay auction here, can I ask you to stop using false information in your auction titles? I find it very annoying when this auction comes up in a search for "Angenieux". There is no reason to think it is an Angenieux lens, you claim it to be a Russian lens, not Angenieux, not Wollensak. Likewise the "Kinoptik" in your Lomo lens auction. |
Cannot more than agree Dick, it is really annoying this "keyword spamming". Ebay was once was very serious about it, but they don't check this anymore, they simply don't care...
I removed the ebay listing, we have a seperate section for that AND ONLY FOR MEMBERS WITH 200+ POSTINGS are allowed to post sales ads / auctions there which the author does not fulfil yet.
PS: I'm not impressed by that lens' performance, seen and have much better performing russian lenses _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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