View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
stilian
Joined: 29 Apr 2012 Posts: 38 Location: Bulgaria
|
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: Helios 44-3 MC and 44-2 comparison :) |
|
|
stilian wrote:
Here are some photos comparing the two lenses ...
44-2 on the left | 44-3 on the right
(click for bigger pics)
44-3 has more contrast, warmer colours, better sharpness in the center and corners ... while 44-2 - slightly better bokeh (for my taste at least).
Any comments are welcome ... _________________ Sony NEX 5N, Panasonic G3, Olympus PL1, Rollei SL35, Zeiss Icarex, Zenit E, Konica TC
-------
28mm: Olympus OM 2.0, Petri 2.0 K-Mount, Minolta MD 2.8, Industar 69 2.8 M39, Konica AR Hexanon 3.5
35mm: C/Y Zeiss Distagon 2.8, Rollei Distagon 2.8, Carl Zeiss Skoparex 3.4, Nikkor AIS 2.0, CZJ Flektogon 2.4
50mm: Carl Zeiss Planar SL 1.8, Rollei Planar SL 1.8, Minolta Rokkor-X MD 1.4, Minolta MD (newest) 1.4, CZJ Pancolar MC 1.8, Olympus OM 1.8, Konica AR Hexanon 1.7
85mm: Jupiter 9 2.0 LTM Silver
100mm: Konica Hexanon 2.8
135mm: Jupiter 37A 3.5 Olympics Edition, Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar MC 3.5, Canon 3.5 LTM, Minolta MD Tele Rokkor 3.5, Konica AR Hexanon 3.5
Other: Helios 44 silver 13 blades, Helios 44-2 58mm 2.0 (JOV), Helios MC 44-3 (MMZ), Meopta Openars - 40 1.8, 20 1.8, 80 2.8 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
|
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
martinsmith99 wrote:
More contrast yes, but is it actually sharper? A contrast hike in PP for the 44-2 to match the 44-3 would be interesting for comparison.
I rarely use a Helios on film because it lacks the contrast for my taste. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stilian
Joined: 29 Apr 2012 Posts: 38 Location: Bulgaria
|
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stilian wrote:
Some chart photos :
centre
corners
_________________ Sony NEX 5N, Panasonic G3, Olympus PL1, Rollei SL35, Zeiss Icarex, Zenit E, Konica TC
-------
28mm: Olympus OM 2.0, Petri 2.0 K-Mount, Minolta MD 2.8, Industar 69 2.8 M39, Konica AR Hexanon 3.5
35mm: C/Y Zeiss Distagon 2.8, Rollei Distagon 2.8, Carl Zeiss Skoparex 3.4, Nikkor AIS 2.0, CZJ Flektogon 2.4
50mm: Carl Zeiss Planar SL 1.8, Rollei Planar SL 1.8, Minolta Rokkor-X MD 1.4, Minolta MD (newest) 1.4, CZJ Pancolar MC 1.8, Olympus OM 1.8, Konica AR Hexanon 1.7
85mm: Jupiter 9 2.0 LTM Silver
100mm: Konica Hexanon 2.8
135mm: Jupiter 37A 3.5 Olympics Edition, Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar MC 3.5, Canon 3.5 LTM, Minolta MD Tele Rokkor 3.5, Konica AR Hexanon 3.5
Other: Helios 44 silver 13 blades, Helios 44-2 58mm 2.0 (JOV), Helios MC 44-3 (MMZ), Meopta Openars - 40 1.8, 20 1.8, 80 2.8 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You have a less than great copy of the 44-2, a good copy would be much better than this.
These sorts of tests reveal very little that matters, even this copy of the 44-2 you have would be capable of very nice pics after a little bit of PP.
The differences between the two sets of results are miniscule, and some PP would nullify them altogether. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
electricnerve
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 1 Location: Kakadu, NT
|
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
electricnerve wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
"a good copy (of the 44-2) would be much better than this ... the differences between the two sets of results are miniscule" |
So either the 44-2 is much better than the 44-3 (and the figures below suggest otherwise) or these two statements are inconsistent.
Helios-44-2 - resolution: 38/20
Helios-44-3 - resolution: 40/21 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3925 Location: Switzerland
|
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
electricnerve wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
"a good copy (of the 44-2) would be much better than this ... the differences between the two sets of results are miniscule" |
So either the 44-2 is much better than the 44-3 (and the figures below suggest otherwise) or these two statements are inconsistent.
|
Ian has provided us with many inconsistent statements in the past
@ stilian: Thanks for your effort to provide reliable information - the differences in contrast ar visible, and they do matter in certain circumstances. Not everybody has the time to lots of post-processing, especially when shooting larger reportages
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dan_
Joined: 05 Dec 2012 Posts: 1055 Location: Romania
Expire: 2016-12-19
|
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dan_ wrote:
Very well done tests, stilian!
Anyway, the main weakness of the Helios 44-x lenses is the inconsistency between different samples of the same lens due to the poor quality control and/or extensive use/abuse. Therefore such a test comparing 2 Helios 44-X lenses is only relevant for the very 2 samples tested and cannot be generalised. If the Bokeh, contrast and flare resistance are little affected by the lack of quality invariance the sharpness is more affected. I too believe that exist better samples of the Helios 44-2, with better sharpness.
stevemark wrote: |
Ian has provided us with many inconsistent statements in the past |
That's not a fair remark, Stephan. Of course nobody is perfect but Ian had, over the years, an important contribution on this forum and we all have learned a lot of things from him. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Novicus
Joined: 06 Mar 2016 Posts: 136 Location: Denmark
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Novicus wrote:
Stilian , I appreciate that you took the time to make the comparison .
Great Work , Thanks _________________ Going through a Phase......Again..
" Carpe Firm Occupare Momento "
------------------------------------------
Analogue : Nikon Chrome F..Black F..Black F2 motor...F3..FA...Nikkormat Ftn black..Mamyia M645 ..M645J..Horseman VHR..RolleiFlex Tessar 75/f3.5...Rolleicord Xenar ..Konica autoreflex T...Pentax spotmatic..
--------------------------------------------
Digital : Nikon D1..D1x...D3s...D3x...Kodak SlrN.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1659
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
papasito wrote:
N* Serie of both lenses, please |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TAo2
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Posts: 319 Location: Scotland
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
TAo2 wrote:
Ah have 2 x Helios 44-2 (KMZ), 2 x MMZ, 1 x Valdai. They are all in excellent condition; ah'd say the 2 KMZs are slightly sharper and render colours more fully than the others. The ones which blow them all away are my 44M-4s. One in excellent cosmetic and mechanical condition, the other, bashed about, dings and dents but still performs immaculately. Due in no small part tae the fact that the optics are still mint. These two lenses are visibly superior tae my 44-2s, no mean feat.
Unlike many stories, here and elsewhere, ah find that these lenses, regardless of type, or factory, are remarkably consistent in build, coatings etc. Comments have been made about lens coatings. Every lens manufacturer changed coatings (and still do) mid-run. Minolta was (in)famous for changing/upgrading, improved coatings several times a year as better more consistent coatings became available. Ah reckon that's exactly what Helios did as well.
Ah'd recommend folk tae look out for the black Helios 44, 8 blades. It's nearly as good as the silver, 13 bladed version and much cheaper (snob value)... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3666 Location: Calgary
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lightshow wrote:
My KMZ 44-2 easily out performs your 44-2, so all that means is that you really need a much larger sampling of lenses from each manufacture for each model to begin to generalize the qualities for any particular version. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jrsilva
Joined: 06 Dec 2012 Posts: 117 Location: Portugal
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
jrsilva wrote:
Thank's stilian for posting those samples.
I have a 44-2 (1983) from Valdai plant in good cosmetic condition. It may also have been serviced in the past by an earlier owner.
I love these Helios lenses and I may pick up another sample sometime. Maybe a 44M-7 or a silver 44-2.
Would the old silver 13 blades be better than my 1983 Valdai version?
I don't have another sample to directly compare with my Valdai sample, but I think I've got lucky because I found it very sharp.
Cátia by Jaime Silva, on Flickr
Cátia by Jaime Silva, on Flickr _________________ Jaime Silva
Olympus and Panasonic micro 4/3 cameras user.
MF lenses: Helios 44-2 f/2 | Meyer-Optik Görlitz Trioplan 50mm f/2.9 | Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 1Q 50mm f2.8 silver 12 blades |
Fujinon 55mm f/2.2
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jaimesilva00/
https://www.facebook.com/jaimesilva.photographya |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Novicus
Joined: 06 Mar 2016 Posts: 136 Location: Denmark
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Novicus wrote:
JRSILVA: That first pic. is a Great shot and the sun playing on the model`s hair is " the icing on the cake " , Good work.
There`s No denying , them Helios lenses are exellent.
_________________ Going through a Phase......Again..
" Carpe Firm Occupare Momento "
------------------------------------------
Analogue : Nikon Chrome F..Black F..Black F2 motor...F3..FA...Nikkormat Ftn black..Mamyia M645 ..M645J..Horseman VHR..RolleiFlex Tessar 75/f3.5...Rolleicord Xenar ..Konica autoreflex T...Pentax spotmatic..
--------------------------------------------
Digital : Nikon D1..D1x...D3s...D3x...Kodak SlrN.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tromboads
Joined: 29 May 2012 Posts: 1655 Location: Melbourne AU
Expire: 2015-10-01
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tromboads wrote:
Wait... it's just the coatings that "officially" change between the 44's ?
My experience with a couple of 44m4's was that they were remarkable. I never bothered with the m6,7,2 etc as I though the optical formula was consistent. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jrsilva
Joined: 06 Dec 2012 Posts: 117 Location: Portugal
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jrsilva wrote:
Novicus wrote: |
JRSILVA: That first pic. is a Great shot and the sun playing on the model`s hair is " the icing on the cake " , Good work.
There`s No denying , them Helios lenses are exellent.
|
Thank you!
I have to use it more.
Now that Spring is is starting and sun is shinning more often, green foliage will provide plenty of bokeh. _________________ Jaime Silva
Olympus and Panasonic micro 4/3 cameras user.
MF lenses: Helios 44-2 f/2 | Meyer-Optik Görlitz Trioplan 50mm f/2.9 | Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 1Q 50mm f2.8 silver 12 blades |
Fujinon 55mm f/2.2
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jaimesilva00/
https://www.facebook.com/jaimesilva.photographya |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TAo2
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Posts: 319 Location: Scotland
|
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TAo2 wrote:
tromboads wrote: |
Wait... it's just the coatings that "officially" change between the 44's ?
My experience with a couple of 44m4's was that they were remarkable. I never bothered with the m6,7,2 etc as I though the optical formula was consistent. |
No. The earliest Helios 44 had a min, aperture of f22, became f16 in subsequent models. each end no. e.g.... 4,5,6 denotes a change tae the resolution...
#1
[/img] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tromboads
Joined: 29 May 2012 Posts: 1655 Location: Melbourne AU
Expire: 2015-10-01
|
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
tromboads wrote:
Yeah but changing the aperture mechanism doesn't require a change in optics. So the optics were different? across the 44's? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Musashichan
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 96
|
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Musashichan wrote:
I really don't know which one is better (prefered would be the right term) between your 2 Helios-44 but this is interesting. Subject has more contrast and colors seems to be better rendered (more subtile color variations) for the 44-3.
Concerning the resolution of each one, you just can't tell picking 1 of each model. Even in the same years and same factory there is always a significant difference in each Helios-44 : https://flic.kr/s/aHskqTdtzv
I'm testing different models each day and i'm always surprised to see how the differences can be huge in sharpness, color and contrast. I'm always using those quick chart tests to spot a good, average or bad 44, to know if it will be valuable to be cleaned.
But this not makes a good or bad lens. For exemple, one of the last Helios-44-2 i sold was this one (MMZ from 1977) : https://flic.kr/p/Ds3gzW, if you compare with its compagnions from Valdai, it seems not to be the sharpest...but it was one of the best when shooting, very nice colors, great contrast and very good reaction to difficult shooting conditions.
Same with silver 13 or 8 blades from KMZ, they are for me the best H-44 you can find, because of a general character and not just definition result. On paper we should just find a H-44M7.
So...i like this kind of tests, side by side it's always nice to have same condition tests? But it's no way to make any final conclusion or long discussions on those results. _________________ Visit my website : http://www.vintagephotography.fr
Flikr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/60427575@N08/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|