View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:30 am Post subject: Vega-25 50mm/5.6 |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
Hello,
I received this strange lens yesterday, from Moscow.
I have very few info about it. It's russian (written in cyrilic) but there isn't any plant symbol... which can looks a bit strange for a russian lens. Even modern russian lenses have symbols. Aperture ring is dented, so looks like it is from motorised machine (obviously an enlarger). Serial is 3001. Coating is green/turquoise. Mount is M27. Seller told that it has special optiks (ultra low dispersion, or something like that), hard to know if it's true.
Nevertheless...
I adapted it on Nex, using a lens cap and helicoïde. It looks very amateur, but it's working like a charm : I've got the infiny and closefocus.
I went to Paris in order to make some test shots (so, not artistic shots).
All shot are straight from camera, no PP, even if some deserve noise reduction (1 and 7 are ISO 1600, other - ISO 800... yes very poor light, and all shots handheld). All shots are wide open (f/5.6) exepted #2, which was a bit closed.
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
#8
_________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:42 am Post subject: Re: Vega-25 50mm/5.6 |
|
|
ForenSeil wrote:
Interesting lens! Thank you very much for sharing samples. I'm also very curious about USSR enlarger lenses but I was afraid of playing russian roulette again after bad experience last times
BurstMox wrote: |
...seller told that it has special optiks (ultra low dispersion, or something like that), hard to know if it's true. |
I bet the same glas like in Industar L leses (for example Industar 61 L/D) - it contains some Lanthanum (slightly radioactive). IQ wise these Lanthanum glas lenses are not better than other's by the same (sovjet) makers in my experience - I guess they mainly use these special glas to save correction elements inside the lens (=money)/make an easier construction, not to improve their old lens designs. _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:44 am; edited 7 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Vega-25 50mm/5.6 |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
BurstMox wrote: |
...seller told that it has special optiks (ultra low dispersion, or something like that), hard to know if it's true. |
I bet the same glas like in Industar L leses (for example Industar 61 L/D) - it contains some Lanthanum (slightly radioactive). |
I thought Lanthanum was yellow _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Vega-25 50mm/5.6 |
|
|
ForenSeil wrote:
BurstMox wrote: |
ForenSeil wrote: |
BurstMox wrote: |
...seller told that it has special optiks (ultra low dispersion, or something like that), hard to know if it's true. |
I bet the same glas like in Industar L leses (for example Industar 61 L/D) - it contains some Lanthanum (slightly radioactive). |
I thought Lanthanum was yellow |
No, or at least not automatically. I had several Industar 61 L/D and they were all nearly colorless (except the coating reflections).
As far as I know yellow coloration comes from Thorium and can be cleaned with UV light.
Is the Vega-25 really a 50/5.6 lens or a lens with another formula (50/2.8 etc.) with fixed min. aperture of 5.6 for enlargements?
PS: Does anyone here know exactly from which chemical reaction this typical yellowish color comes from?
PPS: Color rendition and overall character reminds me a lot of Industar 61 L/D - I bet it's a very similar design. _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
Quote: |
Is the Vega-25 really a 50/5.6 lens or a lens with another formula (50/2.8 etc.) with fixed min. aperture of 5.6 for enlargements? |
I would be glad to know
But if this lens follow the soviet logic, Vega has to be a Biometar, not a tessar like all Industars. Now, this lens obviously doesn't follow soviet logic (no logo, not usual look)...so hard to know. I don't have knowledge to disassemble it, and I don't want to train on this rare lens . _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
ForenSeil wrote:
BurstMox wrote: |
Quote: |
Is the Vega-25 really a 50/5.6 lens or a lens with another formula (50/2.8 etc.) with fixed min. aperture of 5.6 for enlargements? |
I would be glad to know
But if this lens follow the soviet logic, Vega has to be a Biometar, not a tessar like all Industars. Now, this lens obviously doesn't follow soviet logic (no logo, not usual look)...so hard to know. I don't have knowledge to disassemble it, and I don't want to train on this rare lens . |
You can't argue with their names indeed. Most Jupiters are Sonnars but the Jupiter-12 is a Biogon and so on So the Vega could be also a Tessar / Industar.
hmm...
Quote: |
|
is it wide open in that picture? For me that hole inside it looks like a build-in artificial min-aperture.
Insides it looks similar to my Noritsu 50.7/9.5 (which a an enlarging lens from an processing machine aswell but with fixed aperture), which also looks more like an 50/2.X lens based on front lens diameter and given focal length.
BTW: Many of these enlarger lenses are optically optimized for fixed magnification ratios (like ~1:5 for example, to enlarge a 35mm neg on usual print sizes like 9x13cm or 15x20cm). Some do very well far outside their original specifications but others become more or less an cruelty, especially at their widest apertures.
IQ looks best in sample #7 for my eyes which is a close-up. Mabye it's not an coincident. (But maybe it's simply a normal Industar L ~50/2.8 Tessar taking lens in an optimized build ) _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
Quote: |
is it wide open in that picture? For me that hole inside it looks like a build-in artificial min-aperture. |
You're right, this is wide open. _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
|
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Andrew Devlin |
|
|
ForenSeil wrote:
bevlin761 wrote: |
Is the Vega-25 really a 50/5.6 lens or a lens with another formula (50/2.8 etc.) with fixed min. aperture of 5.6 for enlargements? |
Read posts above! Lens looks like it has an build in fixed aperture. According to front element diameter my bet goes to 50/2.8 Tessar-like, due "special glas" and character how it renders (colors) I would bet it's Industar 61 50/2.8 or a close derivate. _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
I gave a new try with this lens, on A7 this time. I can see very slight vignetting wide open, so I don't think it will cover more than 24x36.
I also physicaly compared it to Industar-61. Front element is bigger than on I-61, whereas rear element is more little. I don't know if it can be related to formula. I made a comparaison with intern element reflexion :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVhxGaZj2gc&feature=youtu.be
And here are some basic shoots with this Vega-25 on A7 :
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5 crop 100%
#6
And here is the lens in his classical shape :
_________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It doesn't render like a tessar so I bet it's a biometar/unilite type like the other Vegas.
BTW Lanthanum glass does make a difference, the I-61 L/D has more contrast and colour saturation than the earlier non-Lanthanum Industars like the 22 and 50.
You can also see this in the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 2.8/50 which has better contrast and saturation than contemporary tessars like the CZJ 2.8/50, the Color-Skopar makes use of Lanthanum. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
I will compare it with my Vega-3 50mm/2.8 tomorow. Maybe it will render more similar to this Vega-25 then.
I used it on my Nex-3 some months ago : http://forum.mflenses.com/vega-3-50mm-2-8-t62766,highlight,%2Bvega+%2B3.html _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Vega-25 50mm/5.6 |
|
|
sichko wrote:
BurstMox wrote: |
ForenSeil wrote: |
BurstMox wrote: |
...seller told that it has special optiks (ultra low dispersion, or something like that), hard to know if it's true. |
I bet the same glas like in Industar L leses (for example Industar 61 L/D) - it contains some Lanthanum (slightly radioactive). |
I thought Lanthanum was yellow |
Lanthanum (Ln) itself is a silvery white metal. The Ln3+ ("3+" should be a superscipt) cation, as found in glasses, is colourless. _________________ John |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Vega-25 50mm/5.6 |
|
|
sichko wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
BurstMox wrote: |
ForenSeil wrote: |
BurstMox wrote: |
...seller told that it has special optiks (ultra low dispersion, or something like that), hard to know if it's true. |
I bet the same glas like in Industar L leses (for example Industar 61 L/D) - it contains some Lanthanum (slightly radioactive). |
I thought Lanthanum was yellow |
.....
As far as I know yellow coloration comes from Thorium ..... |
Thorium (Th) exists as Th4+ ("4+" should be a superscript) in glasses and is colourless.
Quote: |
Does anyone here know exactly from which chemical reaction this typical yellowish color comes from? |
It's hard to find a completely definitive explanation. However it is known that (i) gamma-ray irradiation of a variety of colourless crystalline solids and glasses can cause colouration, and (ii) the decay series of Thorium produces gamma rays. The colouration is attributed to so called Colour-centres of F-centres (F = Farbe, German, colour). The nature of these centres presumably depends upon the chemical constitution of the particular glass. So, for example, it been proposed that in silicate glasses irradiation damage pushes a negative oxygen atom away from a positively charged silicon atom. There results a positively charged "hole", a negative electron sits in the hole and colouration is due to light absorption by this tightly bound electron-hole pair.
Try searching "colo(u)r centre" "F-centre" "gamma irradiation, colouration, crystal" etc. _________________ John |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yahvel
Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Posts: 243 Location: USA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yahvel wrote:
This is a very good lens, great quality. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
|
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ForenSeil wrote:
Yahvel wrote: |
This is a very good lens, great quality. |
Do you really think so? For me it looks quite bad to be honest, especially considering that's 50mm and F5.6
Slightly dull and cold colors, strong blueish glow/CAs (look at "Zola Colors" sign in one of the pics) in high contrast scenes, rather low contrast, undersaturrated blacks....
Almost every 50mm taking lens I know is better @F5.6 _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
Yahvel wrote: |
This is a very good lens, great quality. |
Do you really think so? For me it looks quite bad to be honest, especially considering that's 50mm and F5.6
Very dull and cold colors, strong blueish glow/CAs (look at "Zola Colors" sign in one of the pics) in high contrast scenes, rather low contrast, undersaturrated blacks....
Almost every 50mm taking lens I know is better @F5.6 |
Sorry, but I completely disagree
The resolution looks very nice, the contrast is fine, you can't expect perfect contrast in the not so good light conditions, there is a nice gradation of tones despite the poor light. Same for the colours, they are more than fine considering the light conditions. There isn't any visible CA on most of the shots and it is wrong to criticise it based on that Zola Colours sign which is a neon tube and of course has a diffuse blue glow.
I've seen a lot of worse lenses, this one looks much better than average. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
|
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CuriousOne wrote:
Other, also enlarger vega's have same 2nd aperture inside. will try to remove and post results. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
Which Vega? I'm curious waiting for your results _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
CuriousOne wrote:
Vega 5U
_________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
CuriousOne wrote:
I've just measured - front glass diameter in Vega 5U is 42mm (diameter of part exposed to light), so according to calculations, with that additional aperture removed, this lens should become 105/2.5, which is quite interesting. But my particular lens is not sharp enough even at F4, so at F2.5 it would be much worse.
Here's it @F4:
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/19595/45772Fj34BRUMri/OtBBRiD4xu/964208.jpg _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
Ah yes, I have this lens too. I never thought about this "second" apperture. Since the lens is pretty cheap and easy to find, I may try to remove this thing.
On Vega-25, it's a bit different. There isn't any "second" aperture. It's just that the apperture wide open has little diameter regarding to the glasses. _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I look forward to seeing samples from the Vega-5y as a 4/105 Biometar type would be interesting to use on 6x9. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 2017 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BurstMox wrote:
I just disasembled optics. This "thing" can't be removed, that's simply the shape of the second bloc. If you want to remove it, you'll have to remove the second bloc. Not very good .
Ian, I may have time to do some shots today. But don't espect great result, it's an enlarger lens. Also, mine is not in perfect condition, but you may have an idea. Resolution (according to photohistory) is 56/24. _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Merci Pierre, I look forward to seeing them. Anything above 25lp/mm gives okay results on 6x9, but really, 40lp/mm and above is preferable. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
|
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, I also taken it apart, the "2nd aperture" is flattened and black painted surface of 2nd lens _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|