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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10957 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: FF OOF Highlights -- Asahi Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 1:2/35 |
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visualopsins wrote:
Canon 5D + Asahi Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 1:2/35 ( f/2 iso 400 1/125 sec) _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Thanks a lot for sharing.
I now know that this lens will never be in my bag.
I know that many really like this kind of bokeh, but it's definitely not for me. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10957 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Please check other peoples examples first! I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a great lens because I misuse it here!
I think any lens bokeh would be as crazy here.
Let me explain, please.
Shown is only one vine strand of red berries. There is many more vines & berries nearby in oof areas -- these add so much visual confusion to oof areas to produce such 'busy' 'crazy' bokeh. The brain knows that stuff is there even though it cannot be seen clearly -- that disturbs the mind! _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
I now know that this lens will never be in my bag.
I know that many really like this kind of bokeh, but it's definitely not for me. |
This one sample may not be representative for this lens.
Like all lenses, there is no one perfect in any condition |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Gardener wrote:
Looks about right for a 35 Tak wide open. I would nor read much into it - it's not like 35's are a paragon of excellent bokeh. I could not do anything beyond a snapshot - it's cold, rainy, it's getting dark, and I had a dinner on the stove, but I took a couple of comparison shots - one is Super Tak, another is Canon 35/2 IS, both wide open, set at .4 meter, which is MFD for the tak. I am not sure which one looks better.
In some ways Takumar's rendering is more pleasing. OTOH, if you focus Canon to it's MFD, 25 cm, the picture becomes great, so if anything it's the lack of close focusing ability that should be blamed for this bokeh. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10957 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:50 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
There is OOF Highlights and there is OOF regions -- I think OOF regions with objects is Bokeh, while OOF Highlights is only OOF Highlights not Bokeh. I don't think definition of Bokeh includes OOF Highlights. I'm probably wrong. No matter. I only wish to draw attention to the two types of OOF areas -- one is from point sources of bright lights, while the other is an OOF area without bright lights shining from it, or an OOF object, etc..
In my image (top post), there is ample examples of both types of OOF -- there is great number of OOF point-source highlights and a great number of OOF objects, i.e., the OOF vines & berries -- this makes for a very busy image, no matter what lens is used. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:19 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Here is a photo taken withSuper-Takumar 35mm F2 (v1 with 67mm filter threads) I have posted in another thread. People here use dynamic (instead of busy) when describing this kind of bokeh.
_________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10957 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Thank you calvin83 for correct term "dynamic bokeh". Also to drjs for link where I learn for "oof highlights" correct term is "specular highlights." Even that article on bokeh seems to split into two types.
Another reason to separate specular highlights: you know how led torch shined into lens front causes a pattern of reflections according to how many lens elements? That pattern is the same pattern seen in specular highlights. I.e., the circles are individual lens elements, appearing in the same pattern! I know because Nikos had a lens with spot on one element -- specular highlights in images were in pattern with only one circle in each pattern showing spot(!) _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
I should make my statement more clear: 'People here ' means the people in the Greater China Region. In my own opinion, 'dynamic' is a more neutral word than 'busy'.
Correction: It seems only my friends and I call it 'dynamic' _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you.
Last edited by calvin83 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:54 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Genlemen, do not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing the lens. As I said, for some, this lens might be perfect.
It just my personal opinion that I do not like highlight bubbles, i.e. "crazy" or "busy" or "dynamic" (or whatever you might call it) bokeh highlights. For me it has to be smooth, velvety. There are some 35mm lenses who can achieve that. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
I understand, Carsten. I would like to ask if this is the kind of smooth or creamy bokeh you like.
(Taken with a 35mm F2.8 on NEX 5N)
_________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Gardener wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Genlemen, do not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing the lens. As I said, for some, this lens might be perfect.
It just my personal opinion that I do not like highlight bubbles, i.e. "crazy" or "busy" or "dynamic" (or whatever you might call it) bokeh highlights. For me it has to be smooth, velvety. There are some 35mm lenses who can achieve that. |
I think it has as much to do with the lens as it does with photographer skills and intent. Also, things like background can be adjusted in post. |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1632 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:25 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
Gardener wrote: |
..
I think it has as much to do with the lens as it does with photographer skills and intent. Also, things like background can be adjusted in post. |
But post processing is work
And with hairs / branches and other small sharp detail it is lots of work to seperate the background to create smooth background - or the other way round. Furthermore it is sometimes extreme work to get tha background blur right for different distances.
So I prefer the richt lens for the drawing I like, lenses like Trioplan/Diaplan for bussy / accentuated background, lenses with homemade apodizing filters for very smooth unsharp areas. And normal lenses for normal bokeh.
And lenses with adjustable spherical aberration for all of the three bokeh flavors - but sometimes with loss of sharpness. _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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