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low budget wide-angle: I need some advice
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: low budget wide-angle: I need some advice Reply with quote
Hello all,

I'm shooting with an Nikon D7100 and some MF primes: MIR- 24N 2/35, Nikkor 50mm 1.4 AI and Nikkor 105mm 2,5 Ai-s. Now I need an wide-angle to do a real estate work but I'm with a very low budget. Need advice to get the best relation between image quality an price until get money to get the best quality lenses.

I have M42 adapters and, if needed shop to others adapters.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Vitor


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe the Samyang 14mm 2.8?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ckrook wrote:
Maybe the Samyang 14mm 2.8?

Very difficult to get one used at low price because they are very recent. I'm trying to find an oldest (and cheap) MF lenses... thanks anyway ckrook!


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tokina RMC 17
Nikkor 18/4, 18/2.8


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: low budget wide-angle: I need some advice Reply with quote
vitoreis wrote:
Hello all,

I'm shooting with an Nikon D7100 and some MF primes: MIR- 24N 2/35, Nikkor 50mm 1.4 AI and Nikkor 105mm 2,5 Ai-s. Now I need an wide-angle to do a real estate work but I'm with a very low budget. Need advice to get the best relation between image quality an price until get money to get the best quality lenses.

I have M42 adapters and, if needed shop to others adapters.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Vitor


Hi, Vitor

Could you possibly be a bit more specific?

Your shortest focal length lens right now appears to be a 35mm. OK

Would a 28mm lens do your job? If so, they are ubiquitous and inexpensive.

If you require a 24mm lens, with a thin wallet, you will need to shop carefully and try to find one in a less well known brand. The two I bought cheap are a Rexagon f3.5 (which is actually 23mm) and an Upsilon 24mm f2.8. Neither of these is a photographic wonder, but either might do your job.

Dropping on down now below even 23mm, to 21mm or less, I don't know how to buy such a MF lens on the cheap. It takes fantastic good fortune and wonderful timing. The really short focal length lenses, in decent condition, are expensive.

So that might be another avenue of approach for you, if you must go very short. You could consider a "fixer-upper" lens, or a lens with mild scratching or with coating blems (cleaning marks).

But bottom line though, it would be a good thing if you could be more specific as to exactly how short you really want to go.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: low budget wide-angle: I need some advice Reply with quote
guardian wrote:


If you require a 24mm lens, with a thin wallet, you will need to shop carefully and try to find one in a less well known brand.



+1

Lots of people recommend the Ensinor 24mm f2.8 (also available as 'Clubman' IIRC). I have a Sigma Super-Wide II 24mm f2.8 which also pretty decent (and distinctly better than the Mk 1 version).

If you are shooting a Nikon DSLR, does that mean your M42 adapter has a lens in it to allow you to get infinity focus? It is generally advised to steer clear of adapters with lenses in them if optimum image quality is a priority. But with Nikon this means you are stuck with Nikon mount lenses.

I can only echo guardian's comments that getting a truly wide angle lens for a crop format camera is never going to be cheap. The Tokina 17mm is the usual recommendation but that lens is getting pretty expensive these days.

Mark


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikon 18-55 kit lens is your best bet.
Yes its AF but the things are cheap and they give you usable 18mm.

Its hard to get such a lens with better quality for any reasonable price in MF lenses.

Closest I have is the Vivitar 19mm f/3.8 (Cosina), which is quite good on crop sensor, but even that is usually more expensive than the Nikon kit lens which can be found for under $60.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Rokinon/Samyang/Vivitar/ProOptic/Bower/Opteka/Bell & Howell/Falcon/Walimex 14/2.8 has so much mustache distortion I would consider it unusable for real estate/architectural imaging.

And the Tokina 17/3.5 I have is the same.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm.
This guy seems to have the Samyang moustache thing sorted out - a simple adjust in GIMP.
I use GIMP sometimes, though I'm no whiz at it, even I can understand what he's about.
He's even got the exact numbers to plug in.

http://kyleclements.com/blog/2013/new-lens-samyang-14mm-f2-8-correcting-the-moustache-distortion/


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I think one good 24mm or even 28mm can do the job! Nikkor 28mm or 24mm 2.8 AI-s it's the obvious choose but they are not cheap these ebay days... if I can find an more economic solution with similar quality, perfect!
Nikon 18-55 kit lens have a terrific sharpening.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Hmm.
This guy seems to have the Samyang moustache thing sorted out - a simple adjust in GIMP.
I use GIMP sometimes, though I'm no whiz at it, even I can understand what he's about.
He's even got the exact numbers to plug in.

http://kyleclements.com/blog/2013/new-lens-samyang-14mm-f2-8-correcting-the-moustache-distortion/


I came up with the same solution. However, remember you're tossing away pixels when you correct for the mustache. You're also narrowing your FOV when you do. So the end result is, in effect, a longer focal length.

My calculations put it at 17mm after correction.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Nikon 18-55 kit lens is your best bet.
Yes its AF but the things are cheap and they give you usable 18mm.

Its hard to get such a lens with better quality for any reasonable price in MF lenses.
.


I totally agree with the above. I think only a 14mm or wider is going to be better but you will pay the price!

On my NEX I use the lens turbo and a 21mm lens to get wider than my Kit 18-55 but on the Nikon you have more restrictions - not least being limited to its long FFD.

If you dont have a kit lens, they can be picked up for a fraction of the price of a MF equivalent.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
vitoreis wrote:
Yes, I think one good 24mm or even 28mm can do the job! Nikkor 28mm or 24mm 2.8 AI-s it's the obvious choose but they are not cheap these ebay days... if I can find an more economic solution with similar quality, perfect!
Nikon 18-55 kit lens have a terrific sharpening.


I'm guessing that the camera model you have is not FF based on previous comments. A 28 is 42mm equivalent, not real wide, while as mentioned previously, 24mm mf lenses (36mm equiv) are generally expensive. Now the kit lens recommended earlier gives you a 24mm equivalent at the wide end (great FL for architecture) at a reasonable speed, with modern coatings and very reasonable cost. Being a zoom it also will give you some flexibility if you ever need it.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 on that.
The Nikon kit lens is very capable and @ 18-55 covers most situations on an APS-C sensor
OH

kenetik wrote:
vitoreis wrote:
Yes, I think one good 24mm or even 28mm can do the job! Nikkor 28mm or 24mm 2.8 AI-s it's the obvious choose but they are not cheap these ebay days... if I can find an more economic solution with similar quality, perfect!
Nikon 18-55 kit lens have a terrific sharpening.


I'm guessing that the camera model you have is not FF based on previous comments. A 28 is 42mm equivalent, not real wide, while as mentioned previously, 24mm mf lenses (36mm equiv) are generally expensive. Now the kit lens recommended earlier gives you a 24mm equivalent at the wide end (great FL for architecture) at a reasonable speed, with modern coatings and very reasonable cost. Being a zoom it also will give you some flexibility if you ever need it.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
using a D7100 with built in AF motor, i recommend Nikon 24mm AF or 28mm AF lenses, not the D version, just because of price. You find them often cheaper than their MF counterparts and they´re not worse

another point would be the nikon pre AI series, where you get a 28mm for peanuts and you just file down the rear collar to get exact metering

reasonable non Nikkors are the above mentioned Tokina 3.5 17mm or Tamron Adaptall lenses
i recently sold a Tokina 12-24mm Zoom for Nikon below the price for a prime, so this also might be an alternative, if you do not want the 18-55mm kit lens (and again, you can take in your case the one without built in motor, so it is the cheaper one)

for architecture you need infinity, so forget all M42 solutions

start searching for a Nikon 3.5 28mm shift - they´re sometimes cheap, take the one, that doesn´t work with your cam (written in Nikon manual - these are the cheapest) and use it, just file down -before!- the rear collar completely. With that lens you can stitch 3 pics without moving the cam


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vivitar Kiron 3.8/20mm or 4/21mm is cheaper alternative to Flektogon 4/20mm. Can be found as Panagor or WEP, and it is at least that good. I regret selling mine.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Manual focus lenses were designed for full frame, and full frame superwides were always at the expensive end. And superwides on a full frame are barely wide angle on a crop frame (24mm is equivalent of 36mm)

Hence you are not going to find anything much better than a kit 18-55 without spending a significant amount of money. This lens is cheap and small because it only has to cover a crop sensor and they have made shedloads of copies.

For interiors, if you want to go wider than 18, you can get a tokina 12-24 for crop frame, which is a real super wide, ideal for interiors, and at £300 would easily pay for itself if used professionally and regularly.

Your other theoretical option is to go for a full frame camera, then the old tokina 17mm RMC is genuinely a super wide, and fairly cheap. Various 24mm are pretty wide and good value.

But good value real wide angle vintage glass on a crop body has always been a difficult equation to solve


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any Nikon or other manufacturer wide rectilinear lens will do the job.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikon E series 28mm 2.8 gives pretty good results on friends D5200


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mir 20/3.5?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks to all. I'll try an nikon 18-105 dx and see if the work it's acceptable to my parameters.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you investigate any of the 17mm f/3.5 offerings from Tamron, Tokina, or Vivitar?
While most are expensive, some can be had cheaply.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
burdickjp wrote:
Did you investigate any of the 17mm f/3.5 offerings from Tamron, Tokina, or Vivitar?
While most are expensive, some can be had cheaply.


Prices can vary quite a bit, especially if you're looking outside of Ebay. I've found quite a few bargains on smaller sites for classified ads
(in Germany i.e. kleinanzeigen.ebay.de, quoka.de, kalaydo.de, markt.de)

I got my Tokina RMC 17/3.5 (Pentax K, mint) for 25€ that way...

For example, you could probably get a good price if you tried to buy the 17/3.5 (probably the Revuenon/Tokina version) out of this set :
http://www.kalaydo.de/kleinanzeigen/analoge-spiegelreflexkameras/revue-fotausruestung-kamera-objektive/a/40577275/?search=dmVydGljYWw9NSZzZWFyY2g9U0VBUkNIX0lEX0JBUF9BTEwma2V5d29yZD0xN21tJkNBVEVHT1JZL01BSU5DQVRFR09SWT04MTQ0
(German seller. If he's willing to ship abroad, tracked & ensured shipping to Portugal is fairly cheap for small items*)


*i.e. from 7,10€ shipped by Deutsche Post:
"Großbrief International" (max 500g, 3,45€) or "Maxibrief International" (max 1kg, 7€)
Option: "Einschreiben" (Tracking -> +2,15€)
Option: "Versicherung" (Insurance, i.e. max 100€ -> +1,5€)
http://www.portokalkulator.de/portokalkulator/std
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