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I've bought my first rangefinder camera
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: I've bought my first rangefinder camera Reply with quote
I just won a Zorki 4K with a Jupiter 8 lens.

The camera is just 2 years younger than me! Very Happy



I can't wait to get it in my hands.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats Juanma! Look lice a nice great camera
Quote:
The camera is just 2 years younger than me!

Strange on the Jes photo you look more younger than the Zorki Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: I've bought my first rangefinder camera Reply with quote
Juanma wrote:
I just won a Zorki 4K with a Jupiter 8 lens.

You'll love it ! Just made my first pics this weekend with mine (after having more or less fixed it).

Oh, beware of the RF buying addiction ... I bought 6 rangefinders last week Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I do like the look of these things. I must not be tempted... I must not be tempted...

Congratulations!


PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Richard_D wrote:
I do like the look of these things. I must not be tempted... I must not be tempted...

Congratulations!


Let's make a choir:

We should'nt be tempted, we should'nt be tempted...

Congrats Juanma, I'm behind one of those Jupiters. If you want we can swap lenses to try them. I got the Industar 26 and Industar 61, but I'd like to try the Jupiter. I'm not sure if it's coated or not, maybe you will need a lens hood for it.

Enjoy!
Jes.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
These are all coated. In addition, they are a Zeiss Sonnar design, which has the lowest flare of any lens of its speed (assuming comparable coating) as this was among the highest priorities at Carl Zeiss before the War.

Of course, a hood doesn't hurt...


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rick_oleson wrote:
These are all coated. In addition, they are a Zeiss Sonnar design, which has the lowest flare of any lens of its speed (assuming comparable coating) as this was among the highest priorities at Carl Zeiss before the War.

Of course, a hood doesn't hurt...


Rick,
My experience witt the Industar 61 M39 is not good regarding flare...
(Maybe is my copy).
A couple of samples without the hood:




Jes.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've owned the Zorki 4K, an amazingly versatile camera. I only sold it because I was augmenting my medium format system at the time. I especially loved the Jupiter lens, and also REALLY loved the diopter lever.

You'll find that the viewfinder is nice and bright! Cool


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
These Russian rangefinders really can be addictive...
As far as I know, the Zorki 4 sports the brightest viewfinder of the Russian RFs, whereas the FED-2 has the best focus functionality.
I have a FED-3 and I also love this model.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is no relation between an Industar and a Jupiter... although it doesn't seem the Industar should flare that much either. Maybe the Russian coatings are less effective than some of the Western ones.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks everybody!

If the Zorki fits me, I'm planning to get a Jupiter 12 2,8/35 and a Jupiter 9 2/85 (you know that last one very well Wink ).

There are a few wide angles wider than the J12, but very pricey in comparison, and I am going cheap on this

Click here to see on Ebay

Rick, can you tell me something about the Jupiter 12?

Last edited by Juanma on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:00 pm; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jesito wrote:


I'm behind one of those Jupiters. If you want we can swap lenses to try them. I got the Industar 26 and Industar 61, but I'd like to try the Jupiter.
Jes.


Sure! You can count on me for that.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most of the Russian lenses are prewar Carl Zeiss designs... not actually copies, but Russian-made versions of the same lenses using the same optical designs and glass formulas. This was part of the USSR's war reparations from Germany after WWII.

The Jupiter-12 is the 35/2.8 Zeiss Biogon, surely the best wide angle lens of its time. The Jupiter-8 and Jupiter-3 are the 50/2 and 50/1.5 Zeiss Sonnars respectively, the Jupiter-9 is the 85/2 Zeiss Sonnar and the Jupiter-11 is the 135/4 Sonnar. They also got the 180/2.8 and 300/4 Sonnars, I don't recall the Russian name for those.

All Sonnars, no matter how many elements they had, were designed to have only 3 air-spaced components to minimize flare. In some cases this meant cementing as many as 4 glasses together in a single block, not a cheap way to make a lens. But in the days before coating, these lenses were exceptionally contrasty compared to the competition, especially in fast, multi-element formulas, and this is a large part of why Contaxes were superior to Leicas before the War.

It was not possible to make the 35mm Biogon with only 3 air-spaced components; I believe it has 4. But its built-in hood helps, and it had no real competition for sharpness until after the War.

Having said all that, due to quality control differences, the Russian lenses are not always quite up to the standard of the Zeiss originals... but they are still quite good.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks again Rick,

Impossible to put more information in that answer. Now definitely the Jupiter 12 is in my list. Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Zorki is here.

Everything seems to be fine. The glass in the Jupiter 8 is clear and the rings turn smothly. The body is in a very well condition for a 31 year camera, and the shutter works well. I will feed it with a B&W roll and try it.

My first surprise is its weight, it's heavy!

Here you can see it with my other recent acquisition:



Now I don't have any digital reflex cameras, but 2 reflex and 1 rangefinder film cameras. I am going backwards! Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Juanma wrote:
I am going backwards! Laughing


Me too, Jaunma! Smile The Jupiter-8 lens on my 1971 Zorki 4 is black and a different design to yours. As far as I know, the lenses fitted to later 4s and the 4Ks all had a black finish, with green numbers on later versions, so I think your lens is probably much older than the camera. It looks superb - what does the projecting knob do - is it a focus control?

BTW, if the rangefinder image needs adjusting, let me know before you do anything. I've done three of them now. I couldn't find any instructions on the web for the vertical adjustment so I'm preparing illustrated instructions.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Peter,

For reflex cameras I prefer the black finish for the objectives, but for rangefinder cameras I definitely prefer the silver finish.

This Jupiter 8 is 20 years older than the camera (serial number starts with a 57), and the letters are in cyrilic alphabet. The focal length is also in cm, not in mm. I have read that quality control in old Jupiters was better than in "new" ones.

And yes, the protruding knob helps focusing. And it's good to have it, beause although the focus ring is not stiff, it needs some strength to move.

About the rangefinder adjusting, I don't know anything about this subject. I can see the image and focus well. Should I wait before fitting the first roll?

I am waiting for your instructions. Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Juanma wrote:
About the rangefinder adjusting, I don't know anything about this subject. I can see the image and focus well. Should I wait before fitting the first roll?


No, you can check and adjust the rangefinder with a film in the camera, but you need to cock the shutter if you need to remove the top casing, so you might lose a frame or two. You only need to remove the cover if the vertical alignment needs adjusting, not for horizontal adjustment.

Remember this is not like a SLR where the image in the viewfinder is through the same lens as the one projected onto the film. Because you can't see through the taking lens, you need to feel sure that the lens is truly in focus when the two images in the viewfinder are in line. Just because the images are lined up in the viewfinder, it doesn't mean the lens is properly in focus. Every camera I've checked so far has needed a little correction, one was a very long way out.

Taking some test shots is the ultimate test, but for now you can assume the lens is OK, and you can check the rangefinder without taking any shots. First set the lens at the infinity stop and look through the viewfinder at a distant subject. The two images should be correctly superimposed. If not, the rangefinder needs adjusting.

If this is OK you can check the close-distance accuracy. Set up the camera on a tripod with the back of the camera accurately measured 1m away from a target on a wall, perhaps a cross on a piece of paper. Set the lens to 1m on its scale and look through the viewfinder again to check the images are still correctly superimposed. If not, the adjustment for this is done with the lens cam.

Do these two checks, Juanma, and if you find any problems I'll tell you how to make the adjustments. Don't worry - it's really easy! Smile


PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That weight you feel is something called "METAL". They used to use a lot of it in cameras years ago, now you only find it as battery contacts and traces on circuit boards.....


PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rick_oleson wrote:
That weight you feel is something called "METAL". They used to use a lot of it in cameras years ago, now you only find it as battery contacts and traces on circuit boards.....


Good point, Rick! Laughing Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
and you can check the rangefinder without taking any shots. First set the lens at the infinity stop and look through the viewfinder at a distant subject. The two images should be correctly superimposed. If not, the rangefinder needs adjusting.

If this is OK you can check the close-distance accuracy. Set up the camera on a tripod with the back of the camera accurately measured 1m away from a target on a wall, perhaps a cross on a piece of paper. Set the lens to 1m on its scale and look through the viewfinder again to check the images are still correctly superimposed. If not, the adjustment for this is done with the lens cam.

Do these two checks, Juanma, and if you find any problems I'll tell you how to make the adjustments. Don't worry - it's really easy! Smile


Peter, I did the tests.

At infinity, it seems ok. It's difficult to say completely, because the double image is very little.

At 1m from the back of the camera, the lens it at 1,07 m aprox, while at 2m is at 2,20m aprox.

What do you think? I only have 1 lens for the moment. Could be a lens fault? May be I can borrow Jesito's lenses and do the test again.

I would like to avoid opening the camera if it's not necessary.
Confused


PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Juanma wrote:
At 1m from the back of the camera, the lens it at 1,07 m aprox, while at 2m is at 2,20m aprox.

You need to do 2 calibrations : the infinite calibration and the close range calibration. Look here http://www.xs4all.nl/~tomtiger/zenrep/calibration.html for instructions.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Juanma wrote:
Peter, I did the tests.

At infinity, it seems ok. It's difficult to say completely, because the double image is very little.

At 1m from the back of the camera, the lens it at 1,07 m aprox, while at 2m is at 2,20m aprox.

What do you think? I only have 1 lens for the moment. Could be a lens fault? May be I can borrow Jesito's lenses and do the test again.

I would like to avoid opening the camera if it's not necessary.
Confused

No, it's almost certainly not a lens fault. You can assume that when the the lens scale is set at a certain distance, an object at that distance will be in focus on the film. If the rangefinder images of the object don't line up it's the rangefinder that needs adjustment, not the lens.

Jieffe's link shows you how the rangefinder image is adjusted horizontally. You don't need to open up the camera at all. Set up the camera on the tripod with its back exactly 1m from the target like you did before. With the lens set at 1m on the focus scale, the two images in the viewfinder should be aligned. If they're not, remove the lens and turn the shiny cam on the end of the arm very slightly using a pair of needle-nosed pliers (or I use a pair of angled circlip pliers). I can't tell you which way to turn it, but you'll soon see when you do it. Then replace the lens, set it back on the 1m mark again and check the images once more. It will take a few tries before you get it right, so have lots of patience!

Once the rangefinder image is adjusted you can take some shots to check the lens. Set the camera on the tripod again as you did before with the back exactly 1m from the target. Set the aperture at f2 (wide open) to minimise the depth of field, set the shutter speed and make sure the lens focus scale is set on 1m again as before - don't look in the viewfinder at all. Use a cable release to take the shot. Hopefully the target will be in perfect focus on the photograph but, if not, then the lens is faulty. This is pretty unlikely!

Good luck Very Happy


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Jieffe and Peter,

Rangefinder adjusted. I only had to change proximity focus.

Now the camera is loaded with an Ilford roll, so it's time to take some photos. I hope I won't forget to cock the shutter before changing speeds. Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: I've bought my first rangefinder camera Reply with quote
Juanma wrote:
I just won a Zorki 4K with a Jupiter 8 lens.

The camera is just 2 years younger than me! Very Happy



I can't wait to get it in my hands.


Goodness! In the distant past, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, I sold these things! I had a Saturday / evening / vacation job at a small family owned photo store, in the UK before the chains like Dixons (spit!!!) and mail-order took over. We catered for 'real' photographers, and had amateur evenings, photo competitions, field trips etc. One such had a Zorki as a prize!

I made a number of trips up to Praed St. In London where Technical & Optical, the importers of all things Zenit, Fed, Lubitel, OMO, Kiev and Zorki were based. Seems so strange to see something from my teen years (1960's) appear again large as life, and so pristine looking!

Apart from cautionary tales about not advancing the shutter speeds on uncocked shutters I cannot remember a lot - though our repair guy did mention that both Zenits and Zorki employed a kind of waxed twine in their workings - I THINK he was joking...? Smile
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