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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 2726
Location: Kiel, Germany.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:20 am Post subject: "Errors" in film emulsion? |
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ForenSeil wrote:
Hi
I'm getting sometimes such "errors" on B/W films. It occurs maybe once in 1 of maybe 5 rolls.
They ruined a few nice shots over the time
That's TriX 400 pushed to ISO 3200 in Xtol 1+1 - but I've already seen it with other dev.-/film combinations.
Can anyone say how to avoid them?
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I'm not a collector, I'm a tester 
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
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berraneck
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 972
Location: prague, czech republic
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:05 am Post subject: |
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berraneck wrote:
just first idea, do you keep temperature of all liquids about the same? I´ve seen some emulsion errors when washing temperature was too hot or too cool, but never this size
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 1869
Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:35 am Post subject: |
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David wrote:
I had that happen when a piece of emulsion had torn in the film spiral's clip. The emulsion came off during developing and adhered to another part of the film. So, my question is whether that part of the emulsion (while in a plastic sheet) has a different relief?
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I never had similar experience.
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:58 am Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
I can't say I've experienced anything like this before either. It does look as if a big piece of something adhered to the film. Xtol, I have noticed, has a tendency to separate and get little white flakes that settle to the bottom of the container. I wonder if one of these flakes stuck to the film somehow?
The image is not entirely lost. After about 2 minutes of cloning I ended up with this:
Obviously it's still very visible but if you spend some actual time, most things are salvageable. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:25 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
| I never had similar experience. |
Me neither.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well I've had that problem a few times with colour negs done by the supermarket, but a much smaller irregular white patch and always assumed it was something floating around the developer\fixer that stuck to the neg. It has never bothered me as I just remove it with photoshop.
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.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
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spoilerhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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spoilerhead wrote:
had that once when two windings of the film touched on the development reel.
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
| Quote: |
| had that once when two windings of the film touched on the development reel. |
Wouldn't that stop the developer from reaching the film, resulting in a dark spot? |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| themoleman342 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| had that once when two windings of the film touched on the development reel. |
Wouldn't that stop the developer from reaching the film, resulting in a dark spot? |
Yes, that is what happens. The emulsion remains on the neg and is opaque so comes out as a black area when scanned.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 2726
Location: Kiel, Germany.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
| berraneck wrote: |
| just first idea, do you keep temperature of all liquids about the same? I´ve seen some emulsion errors when washing temperature was too hot or too cool, but never this size |
This might be the problem
I doing the final wash a bit warmer for faster drying.
Thx!
_________________
I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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spoilerhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
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spoilerhead wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| themoleman342 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| had that once when two windings of the film touched on the development reel. |
Wouldn't that stop the developer from reaching the film, resulting in a dark spot? |
Yes, that is what happens. The emulsion remains on the neg and is opaque so comes out as a black area when scanned. |
um...
It forms a dark spot on the negative, what equals to a white spot on the positive.
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
| Quote: |
| It forms a dark spot on the negative, what equals to a white spot on the positive. |
I don't understand how that occurs than. Why would the film touching result in over-development in that spot? It should be the complete opposite. |
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spoilerhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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spoilerhead wrote:
| themoleman342 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It forms a dark spot on the negative, what equals to a white spot on the positive. |
I don't understand how that occurs than. Why would the film touching result in over-development in that spot? It should be the complete opposite. |
I'ts not overdevelopment at all
If two windings touch nothing reaches the emulsion, including the fixer, so the actual emulsion stays on the film (the spot looks like undeveloped film). I've never seen it the other way around (touching while in developer and not touching while in fixer).
According to my experience this usually happens when a reel jams, and you use to much force to fix it.
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Oh, I understand! Thanks for the clarification. |
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jimithing616
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 63
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:23 am Post subject: |
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jimithing616 wrote:
This, to me, looks like you are either rolling your film on the reel wrong and it is touching in those spots causing the stop, fix, whatever to stick and burn in like that... or your not washing well enough and the same is happening... also are you using powder developer? if so make sure there are no lumps in it... lumps could cause this.
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Konica UC 28mm 1.8 AR
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Minolta MD 24mm 2.8
Minolta MC 58mm 1.4
Minolta MD & MC 50 1.4
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jimithing616
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 63
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: |
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jimithing616 wrote:
In fact it kinda looks like there was absolutely NO emulsion there doesn't it... like it somehow was scratched away.
_________________
My Best Lenses (off the top of my head):
Konica UC 28mm 1.8 AR
Konica UC 80-200mm 4 AR x2
Konica 55mm 3.5 Macro w/Converter.
Minolta MD 24mm 2.8
Minolta MC 58mm 1.4
Minolta MD & MC 50 1.4
Vivitar 35mm 1.9 (minolta MD)
Canon FD 50mm 1.4 S.S.C. & FDn
Canon FD 24mm 2.8 S.S.C. & FDn
Canon FD 200mm 4 S.S.C
Canon FD 135 3.5 S.C. & FDn
Tamron Adaptall 2 24mm 2.5
Nikon AI-S 55mm 2.8 Macro
SMC Pentax-m 50mm 1.4
SMC Pentax-m 135 3.5
Spiratone Plura-Coat 28mm f/2 |
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