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Which system is the most frendly one for manual lenses?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Which system is the most frendly one for manual lenses? Reply with quote
Somebody told, a wise photographer chooses the lenses first, then takes the camera.

so, if you will work with manual lenses,
which camera system might be better?
could it be, these all have some strong points?


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
oohh I'll get involved when it heats up. someone else can answer this one first.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
... someone else can answer this one first.


D'oh!


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
many lenses, 20 mpix aps-c sensor, cheap .. I'd go for Samsung


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
obviously, it depends on what you mean by friendly.

For me, sony E mount system is the most friendly for manual lenses for two main reasons:
First, it is the system with the shortest register distance, so the one that allows adaptation of most lens mounts, including old cine lenses, projector lense, almost whatever.
Then e-mount cameras have many focussing aids (that come very handy when using manual glass).
Finally, the system is quite evolved in the sense that you can choose from a wide range of prices and features going from a "humble" nex-3 that will cost few euros used, to the newes full frame, 33MP A7r.

If you need a "proper" DSLR, with the mirror and stuff, then probably Canon is the most friendly towards manual focus lenses: again, for a matter of register distance, that will allow you to use m42's, nikon, pentax k, OM, and contax/yashica lenses on a Canon body, with some exceptions due to mirror clearance issues in full frame bodies.

If you can live with m42's, interchangeable mounts (T2, adaptall, etc.) and medium format lenses, then Sony and Pentax DSLR's offer some good features, such as in body image stabilization.

Finally, Nikon is the system with least compatibility, but they do awesome cameras, imho, and you can choose from a good amount of good to excellent vintage nikon glass.

I didn't mention micro four thirds system because I have no experience with any, but they offer great compatibility, almost like e-mount, and some cameras also have in body image stabilization, together with focus aids. If you can live with the 2x crop factor, it can be a good choice.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most of lens systems can work great on Canon EF, Pentax K, Leica M. They have closer "working distance" to old systems.
But there's few lens mounts that not very comfortable with it - minolta MD, Canon FD, Hasselblad, and else(Hasselblad actually will work fine, but adapters are little expensive.. and lens too).


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:
If you need a "proper" DSLR, with the mirror and stuff, then probably Canon is the most friendly towards manual focus lenses: again, for a matter of register distance, that will allow you to use m42's, nikon, pentax k, OM, and contax/yashica lenses on a Canon body, with some exceptions due to mirror clearance issues in full frame bodies.


Canons are slightly painful to focus.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
Aanything wrote:
If you need a "proper" DSLR, with the mirror and stuff, then probably Canon is the most friendly towards manual focus lenses: again, for a matter of register distance, that will allow you to use m42's, nikon, pentax k, OM, and contax/yashica lenses on a Canon body, with some exceptions due to mirror clearance issues in full frame bodies.


Canons are slightly painful to focus.


Now that you tell me, I remember that I only used a 5dII with some version of magic lantern installed and which had its focusing screen replaced with a "super precision matte" or something like that.
So my experience was quite good (much worse than my nexes, though), but I have no idea of how could it be "out of the box".
On the other hand, the possibility to use contax glass is quite a good feature.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ahven wrote:
Aanything wrote:
If you need a "proper" DSLR, with the mirror and stuff, then probably Canon is the most friendly towards manual focus lenses: again, for a matter of register distance, that will allow you to use m42's, nikon, pentax k, OM, and contax/yashica lenses on a Canon body, with some exceptions due to mirror clearance issues in full frame bodies.


Canons are slightly painful to focus.


Yes, this is exactly 1 component of what I mean.

The register distance is not that important,
but which system lets me use manual lenses with less trouble

Last edited by mesinik on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Nikon Mount Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:
obviously, it depends on what you mean by friendly.

For me, sony E mount system is the most friendly for manual lenses for two main reasons:
First, it is the system with the shortest register distance, so the one that allows adaptation of most lens mounts, including old cine lenses, projector lense, almost whatever.
Then e-mount cameras have many focussing aids (that come very handy when using manual glass).
Finally, the system is quite evolved in the sense that you can choose from a wide range of prices and features going from a "humble" nex-3 that will cost few euros used, to the newes full frame, 33MP A7r.

If you need a "proper" DSLR, with the mirror and stuff, then probably Canon is the most friendly towards manual focus lenses: again, for a matter of register distance, that will allow you to use m42's, nikon, pentax k, OM, and contax/yashica lenses on a Canon body, with some exceptions due to mirror clearance issues in full frame bodies.

If you can live with m42's, interchangeable mounts (T2, adaptall, etc.) and medium format lenses, then Sony and Pentax DSLR's offer some good features, such as in body image stabilization.

Finally, Nikon is the system with least compatibility, but they do awesome cameras, imho, and you can choose from a good amount of good to excellent vintage nikon glass.

I didn't mention micro four thirds system because I have no experience with any, but they offer great compatibility, almost like e-mount, and some cameras also have in body image stabilization, together with focus aids. If you can live with the 2x crop factor, it can be a good choice.


This is an excellent analysis of the situation and I'd agree 100%. However, I'll jump out there and give some thoughts from the standpoint of a Nikon user just to give something to think about. If you are somebody who wants to have great flexibility in finding lenses that "directly" attach without having to use adapters. If that's the case, then I'd say, either Nikon or Pentax would jump to the forefront since neither of these mounts have physically changed since the 70's. Personally, I chose Nikon for this exact reason and now that I'm getting more and more into manual focus lenses, it's bearing fruit.

Some of this has to due with my self-imposed frugality in this hobby which forces me more toward "mass-market" lenses, vs. glass such as Zeiss, Leica or other exotics. The very longevity and market position of Nikon makes virtually everything independently produced to have been made in that mount. This gives a huge assortment of Nikon produced glass as well as independents. More than half of my stable are nice preforming "classic" lenses found in Nikon mount for very reasonable prices. They range from Vivitar, to Tokina and Tamron. And that doesn't include the fact that Nikon's own older glass can often be used as well.

The easiest way to go this route is to pick up a "pro-sumer" (or higher) level body that incorporates the linkages to allow metering with this older glass. D300's can often be found below $500 and I've seen D200s regularly sell between $150 and $200. Of course, these are not "up-to-date" in a megapixel sense, but I'm a firm believer that, that aspect of photography is overrated.

Good luck with your decision.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="mesinik"][quote="ahven"]
Aanything wrote:


The register distance is not that important,
but which system lets me use manual lenses with less trouble


It's very important if you want the lenses to adapt to the mount without a correction optic. And if you accept the correction optic you're already compromising the "best for" criteria in the question.

I'd suggest the Sony A7 and A7r. The convenience of the E-mount register distance with the benefit of full-frame, so your legacy glass developed for 135 format film is getting the sensor plane dimensions it was designed for. And no need for corrective lenses, so the lens is working to design and not crippled by any limitations of the adapter optics.

I'm still deciding whether it's to be the A7 or A7r for me. But I'm in no rush, happily watching the user reviews and seeing whether Sony get a firmware update in over the next few weeks. There are already a few wishlists circulating.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
GeorgeSalt wrote:


It's very important if you want the lenses to adapt to the mount without a correction optic.


to tell the truth, I am a bit suspicious toward any systems without good optical viewfinders.
will these work well enough in difficult circumstances?

Last edited by mesinik on Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
oohh I'll get involved when it heats up. someone else can answer this one first.

thanks, could you tell your opinion about the systems without optical viewfinders in situations with less light?
I think, it might sometimes be difficult to focus the manual lenses with these.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"real" DSLR: Canon EOS
"fake" DSLR Wink : µ4/3 (Lumix G-Series or OM-D)
overall: Sony NEX

Not too bad as well: any µ4/3 (but the 2xCrop hurts) or Fuji X.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
m4/3 or NEX. If you want manual only, then NEX. With m4/3 you'd have to buy "native" lenses to cover wide to normal end of the spectrum. On the other hand m4/3 native system is far more advanced than NEX, and the lenses are nicer too.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mesinik wrote:
GeorgeSalt wrote:


It's very important if you want the lenses to adapt to the mount without a correction optic.


to tell the truth, I am a bit suspicious toward any systems without good optical viewfinders.
will these work well enough in difficult circumstances?


Having used my 40D with manual lenses, I'm looking forward to what the EVF in the Sony could offer as an advantage over an OVF for both manual focusing and exposure metering. The 6D is my conventional DSLR alternative, and it offers nothing over my curren 40D as far as ease of use for manual lenses is concerned. I want the WYSIWYG metering, the focus zoom and focus peaking all available through the viewfinder that EVF gives.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:
obviously, it depends on what you mean by friendly.

For me...
.


great sum up!!
- and details about Nikon and µ4/3 in later replies.

mesinik wrote:

thanks, could you tell your opinion about the systems without optical viewfinders in situations with less light?
I think, it might sometimes be difficult to focus the manual lenses with these.


I am using optional EVFs on Sony NEX5N and Ricoh GXR. At low light they amplify the signal in the EVF, the more the more noisy the image gets. Focusing I still find easier than with the OVF of my Pentax K-r + split screen ( which of course is smaller and less bright than an OVF of a FF dSLR )

Sony shows color noise, the Ricoh shows whitish points that are quite busy, almost blinking. they do this in an organized way, forming a 'grid', outlining squares that have less noise. That makes imo overall view clearer on the GXR but for critical focusing at low light the EVF of the 5N is superior because of it's higher resolution ( at good light GXR compensates with reliable focus peaking )


PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mesinik wrote:
ahven wrote:
Smile


btw did you get some sense of this discussion?
seems all systems mentioned ..


PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mesinik wrote:
philslizzy wrote:
oohh I'll get involved when it heats up. someone else can answer this one first.

thanks, could you tell your opinion about the systems without optical viewfinders in situations with less light?
I think, it might sometimes be difficult to focus the manual lenses with these.


I use a NEX and a couple of Nikons. First, the Nikons are hard to focus in low light because of the nature of the screen, the NEX has magnification and focus peaking, used together they are fine. Easier than you may think. I have just tried focusing with my D3200, The VF is useless. Live view, manual focusing and screen magnification is imprecise.Not nearly as good as the Sony. see these shots:

the back of the camera. its set to ISO 800, and shows 1/2th sec with my lens at f2.8. So pretty low light



out of focus



In focus with focus peaking (the yellow fringe)



Focus peaking with 7x magnification to really fine tune the focusing



Photos taken with the Sony NEX resized then 100% crop





PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Although I don't own one, it seems to me that any digital camera that has the focus peaking feature will be a good platform for manual focus lenses. Sony is not the only camera maker that has focus peaking, though. Samsung and Panasonic have models that support this feature. And I'll bet that others do too.

About Canons -- because of the EOS registration distance, as you know, it is a popular camera for using manual focus lenses. But the compact EOS cameras, which in the US are given stupid names like Rebel XS, Rebel XSi, Rebel T-1i, etc., these cameras are quite hard to use with mf lenses because of the small, squinty, porro mirror viewfinders. The xxD models, like the 50D, 60D, and 70D, are somewhat better, but the full-frame ones, like any of the 5-series, do a decent job with mf lenses, especially if a different focusing screen is used. I own one of the small, squinty models and it is a frustrating camera to use with quality fast glass. A pain in the ass, is more like it. The only way I can get an accurate shot is if I use Live View.

And then there's this whole business with the EOS cameras not metering a scene correctly with some, but not all, mf lenses. I frequently have to dial in 2 stops of -EV exposure to compensate with some lenses.

Even though I don't own one, I've seen enough examples here and elsewhere to realize who's the best, and it's clearly Sony with their mirrorless cameras, all the way from the NEX 3 to the A7r. They seem to be light-years beyond the rest right now, when it comes to the most flexibility and best image quality when using mf lenses.

Last edited by cooltouch on Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I use my collection of manual lenses (20 at the moment - I need help) with a Sony NEX-6. Apart from the focus peaking, and focus magnification, that others have mentioned, there is another feature of the NEX system that makes it useful for manual lenses. There are two shooting modes in the Scene Selection option that can help to reduce the effects of camera shake. When we use our beloved manual lenses, we loose image stabilisation, unless our camera has an in-body type, which the NEX doesn't. The two modes are: 'Hand Held Twilight' and 'Anti Motion Blur'. They both take a number of exposures (6?) and blend them together in-camera. The resulting picture is sharp, and can have less noise as well. Of course, a tripod is much better, but this can help to get a usable result.
I've included a picture I took just now, indoors with low light levels. Tamron 70-210 zoomed to 210mm, 1/30, f5.6, ISO 6400. What would we do without bookshelves for doing quick tests!



PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
giornata wrote:
I use my collection of manual lenses (20 at the moment - I need help) with a Sony NEX-6. Apart from the focus peaking, and focus magnification, that others have mentioned, there is another feature of the NEX system that makes it useful for manual lenses. There are two shooting modes in the Scene Selection option that can help to reduce the effects of camera shake. When we use our beloved manual lenses, we loose image stabilisation, unless our camera has an in-body type, which the NEX doesn't. The two modes are: 'Hand Held Twilight' and 'Anti Motion Blur'. They both take a number of exposures (6?) and blend them together in-camera. The resulting picture is sharp, and can have less noise as well. Of course, a tripod is much better, but this can help to get a usable result.
I've included a picture I took just now, indoors with low light levels. Tamron 70-210 zoomed to 210mm, 1/30, f5.6, ISO 6400. What would we do without bookshelves for doing quick tests!



Your first post can not contain pictures - antispam measure. You will be fine from now on.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My apologies. Thanks for posting the picture for me.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IMO, the A7/r has closed the question on which camera is best of MF SLR lenses.
The only factor will be if one prefers OVF and/or DSLR size/handling.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"out of the box" I went with Nikon for solid legacy compatibility. Playing with lower end bodies, Niks squeeze next to the best overall performance and I value that over having slightly better compatibility with lenses I'm not likely to get for a good minute (if I already own something similar enough).

Practical approach, but it keeps me shooting more and buying less. Smile
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