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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:59 am Post subject: The Mysteries of the Japanese Exaktar/Pancolar 2/50 |
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Mos6502 wrote:
So this is a bit of a mystery... sometime around 1968 a Japanese made normal lens for the Exakta began to be marketed under the Exaktar name. Who made it? Why was it made? When did they stop? I don't have much of an idea. It seems to be overlooked by most, and I can't find much info about it. Stranger still, these Exaktars occasionally show up with a Pancolar name ring screwed on over the Exaktar one, an example of which is in this ebay auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/50mm-f2-Automatic-Exaktar-Fake-Pancolar-for-Exakta-Bayonet-/261119065537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccbe8bdc1&nma=true&si=U7ZJ1OZTcut%2BJ10ndHb9Xy7DGCg%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Here's just some speculation, but this lens was probably made at the request of an importer. By the late 1960s the Japanese were quite done making straight copies of other's designs. So it's very strange that it would so closely resemble the Pancolar - unless somebody asked for it to. Why was it made? I would guess to provide a low cost alternative to the Pancolars and Xenons for a fast normal for the Exakta.
Who made it? That's an interesting question, but I have no idea. My hunch is that Mamiya made it. The Exaktar 2/50 and Mamiya 2/50 both have the same type of diaphragm blades (a different design from the true Pancolar) and the blades point clockwise - whereas Yashica/Tomioka generally had the blades point counter clockwise. Another trivial link is that the early Mamiyas actually used the exakta bayonet mount, although this probably means nothing as otherwise the systems were incompatible and Mamiya had discontinued use of the mount years earlier by this point.
The Exaktar name was also used on various lenses by a number of manufacturers and distributors during this period which makes things even more confusing. Ihagee West was applying it to Japanese lenses (which have nothing in common with this particular lens), the Exakta Camera Co. (an importer) was also applying it to a number of lenses including these 2/50 lenses. But others were selling them too apparently.
These lenses are not rare, but less common than Pancolars. As the Exakta system fell from favor and with the introduction of the RTL 1000, prices on traditional Exakta equipment were slashed repeatedly in the early 1970s. It's likely that whatever price advantage the Exaktar had at first, it lost it within a year or two.
Seymour's Exakta catalogs from the period also refer to Pancolars as "genuine Jena" lenses, which is interesting. In fact their newsletter even explicitly warned customers about non-Jena Pancolars: http://www.ihagee.org/USA/exaktanews970.pdf
Interesting that there is apparently a "Schnieder 1.9" lens out there too! Has anybody ever seen one? |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3705 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
This is very interesting. Topic also touches Jena Tessar fakes we talked about.
Anyway my guess for the above is: COSINA Cosinon 1.8/50mm M42: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanilevsky/4483245709/
Cosinon by Vanilevsky, on Flickr _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8979 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
Did you manage to grab a screen shot of that lens in the link? as the bidding has finished....I missed seeing it the first time around.Thanks for the Exakta news link. _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
#1
#2
#3
#4
_________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
Fascinating stuff! There hasn't been a huge amount of Exakta discussion on this forum in the past (I think, although I don't delve into the film sections too much) so I had not idea about this
I thought I'd seen some older 135mms branded Exaktar in the past as well. The blatant copying of the Pancolar though is brilliant! _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There were loads of Exaktar branded lenses from Japan, but never before have I seen a Japanese lens that tried to look like a German lens to this extent, the really have copied the external appearance, even down to the distinctive dof chevron markings. The Exaktars I remember seeing were late 70s early 80s and I figured they were to be sold with the Exakta branded Japanese SLRs I've also seen. I thought this was just a case of one of the German retail houses selling Exakta/Exaktar branded goods after the end of pukka Exakt production in the GDR, akin to TOE in England selling 'Carl Zeiss Jena' lenses made by Sigma and Cosina after the fall of the GDR in 1991.
On the Mamiya link, I don't know if Mamiya made any 50mm lenses in Exakta/Topcon mount as the lens on their Exakta/Topcon mount SLR was made by Canon (OM 1.9/50). _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
When I saw this in the other thread I wondered if maybe these Japanese Exaktas were marketed in USA only. I've never heard of one in Europe. I know Exakta cameras were quite popular in USA, and maybe the genuine lenses were difficult to get hold of due to import bans from Eastern Europe. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
I have positively matched the Cosinon 1.8/50 with the Regulon lens for the Regula SLR, but I don't think they were making these as early as 1968, and if it was 1.8 they'd probably label them as such. Cosina may still be a possibility though. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3705 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Mos6502 wrote: |
I have positively matched the Cosinon 1.8/50 with the Regulon lens for the Regula SLR, but I don't think they were making these as early as 1968, and if it was 1.8 they'd probably label them as such. Cosina may still be a possibility though. |
If you compare photos you'll see tiny light reducer under front glass on Exaktar. That would make F1.8 to F2.0 change. I mean why changing designs if F1.8 fits, and it's so easy to make it F2.0. And lens would be sharper. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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