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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: Pinhole Question |
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David wrote:
So I've seen a lot of these converted body cap pinhole lenses for SLRs. I was wondering if anyone has tried a converted lens cap pinhole. The idea being that the lens could focus on the exact spot and then the pinhole would be in front of the lens (alternately, an unused filter ring could be converted to a pinhole aperture.) _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011 Posts: 89 Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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hoacker wrote:
Well you can try for yourself if you take some cardboard and pinch a hole in it. But don't be disappointed when you get a black picture only.
No, it just makes no sense to put a pinhole in front of a lens. You only shadow almost 100% of the light falling into the front lens. _________________ Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
I tried it a few years ago David and I back up what Holger says. I had to keep enlarging the hole till I could see anything at all. This "pinhole" was about 2.5mm dia.
_________________ Peter - Moderator |
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hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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hifisapi wrote:
looks like if you want to use a pinhole, you have to eliminate the lens.... _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
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Nelson
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 618 Location: close to Paris, France
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Nelson wrote:
here are my tests with an eos cap
_________________ DSLR : EOS 350D, 300D, 7D, 5D
Pentacon 50 f1.8, 135 f2.8, 200 f4;
TAIR 3S
Helios 44/2
Meyer Optik Orestegor 200mm f4 Orestegor 300mm f4
Tamron 24mm f2.5 01B, 300mm f5.6 670Au, 75 250, 300mm f5.6 SP 54B, 500mm f8 SP 55B, SP 70 210 3.5, SP 60 300
my MF lenses
EF 50 1.8 I, EF 100macro f2.8, EF 70-200 F4 L is, EFS 17-55 f2.8 is, Sigma 10-20 EX, 18-50 2.8 EX, 300 f4 hsm, 400 5.6 hsm |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Hey, Peter and Roger,
That makes sense, now that I think about it. I had ordered a 99-cent Pentax body cap to make into a pinhole, which is why I thought of maybe putting the hold before the lens (rather than as the lens.)
I'll make the pinhole in the next couple weeks (when the body cap arrives) and plan to use a very-thoroughly filed staple to make a pinhole about 0.2mm in diameter. At 48mm from the film plane, that's slightly smaller than optimal (0.298mm) and should be f250 and yield a 38.6-degree field of view. It's always easier to make the pinhole larger, but not smaller. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Hey, Nelson,
How large was the hole you used? _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10956 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
pinhole equations
wikipedia -- Pinhole Photography
Edmund Optics -- Precision Pinholes _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
David wrote: |
That makes sense, now that I think about it. I had ordered a 99-cent Pentax body cap to make into a pinhole, which is why I thought of maybe putting the hold before the lens (rather than as the lens.)
I'll make the pinhole in the next couple weeks (when the body cap arrives) and plan to use a very-thoroughly filed staple to make a pinhole about 0.2mm in diameter. At 48mm from the film plane, that's slightly smaller than optimal (0.298mm) and should be f250 and yield a 38.6-degree field of view. It's always easier to make the pinhole larger, but not smaller. |
Note that in order to avoid vignetting, the pinhole ought to be punched into a plate thinner than the diameter of the hole also avoiding raising the edges of the hole. Use the thinnest metal foil you can find for the pinhole and fix the foil on the lens cap having something like a 1/4" hole through the center. However, for optimum results it's better to get a ready-made pinhole, e.g., http://www.lenoxlaser.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=72 .
Veijo _________________ Mainly Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar (1938), VPK Meniscus Achromat (1915), TTH Cooke Anastigmat (1917), TTH Cooke Aviar (1937), Goerz Dopp-Anastigmat III Dagor (1912), Voigländer Heliar (1928) or Aldis Uno Series III (1903 design) mounted on EOS 5D or EOS 350D |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
Lovely marketing line: "The Leader in Small Hole Technology" _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
I do own a body cap pinhole for Canon.
It doesn't see much use though. The only thing you see sharp is the dirt on the sensor. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
I do own a body cap pinhole for Canon.
It doesn't see much use though. The only thing you see sharp is the dirt on the sensor. |
_________________ Casual attendance these days |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Why is it that pinholes make sensor dirt so sharp? I have the same problem when I use an old 6X6 lens stopped down to f32 on my DSLR. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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hoacker
Joined: 01 May 2011 Posts: 89 Location: Germany, S�dhessen
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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hoacker wrote:
David wrote: |
Why is it that pinholes make sensor dirt so sharp? I have the same problem when I use an old 6X6 lens stopped down to f32 on my DSLR. |
When you have a large aperture the light falls onto one sensor pixel from a relative broad angle. Some of the light may go around the dirt, depending on the angle. With a small aperture the angle of the light becomes narrower and less light goes around the dirt.
I tried to sketch this, see below. The smaller the aperture, the smaller the angle, the more light the dirt blocks from the sensor and the dirt becomes more visible.
_________________ Holger
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D, 7D, 1000Da, M
Manual lenses: Zeiss Distagon 3,5/18 ZE, Nikon PC-Nikkor 28mm 1:3.5, Olympus OM 28 f/2,0, Zeiss Distagon 2/35 ZE, Leitz Summicron-R 1:2/50, Minolta MC ROKKOR 1:1.2 f=58mm (EOS-Mod), LZOS MC Jupiter-9 2/85, Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Trioplan 1:2.8/100 V (Exa), Zeiss Macro Planar 2/100 ZE, Nikon Nikkor-P.C Auto 1:2.5 f=105mm, Schneider-Kreuznach Componar 1:4,5/105, Porst Tele 1:1,8/135mm MC AUTO (M42), Cosina Auto Cosinon 135mm/2.8 (M42), Makinon MC 1:5.6 300mm Reflex, LZOS MTO 1000A 10,5/1100
AF lenses: Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2,8 IS USM, Canon EF-M 22mm 1:2 STM, Canon EF 40 f/2,8 STM, Canon EF-S 60 f/2,8 USM, Canon EF 200 1:2.8L II USM, Canon EF 500 f/4L IS USM, Canon Extender 1,4x III, Sigma 50-150/2,8 EX DC APO HSM II, Sigma 150 f/2,8 HSM, Sigma APO Tele Converter 1.4x EX DG, Sigma APO Tele Converter 2x EX DG, Kenko Extension Tubes
For sale (PM me): E.Zuiko Auto-T 1:3,5 f=100mm (Pen F), Zeiss Planar 85 f/1,4 (C/Y)
Some pictures at Flickr |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
I do own a body cap pinhole for Canon.
It doesn't see much use though. The only thing you see sharp is the dirt on the sensor. |
Is the distance from sensor to pinhole important? I mean, does the pinhole have a focal distance and, if so, is it related to the size of the hole? _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10956 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
I do own a body cap pinhole for Canon.
It doesn't see much use though. The only thing you see sharp is the dirt on the sensor. |
Is the distance from sensor to pinhole important? I mean, does the pinhole have a focal distance and, if so, is it related to the size of the hole? |
Pinhole is a single 'element' lens, so back focal distance equals pinhole focal length. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: |
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David wrote:
@Holger,
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. That also explains why my shots at f1.4-2 don't show much or any dirt, even when I do substantial tone enhancement in post-processing.[/i] _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
Is the distance from sensor to pinhole important? I mean, does the pinhole have a focal distance and, if so, is it related to the size of the hole? |
Yes, the optimum distance depends on the size of the pinhole, see http://home.online.no/~gjon/pinhole.htm#formulas. However, the optimum also depends on the wavelength (color), which means that any specific distance is a compromise, i.e., the distance (or conversely the size of the hole) may somewhat vary without an appreciable effect on the image and the degree of fuzziness depends on the color composition of the scene.
Veijo[/url] _________________ Mainly Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar (1938), VPK Meniscus Achromat (1915), TTH Cooke Anastigmat (1917), TTH Cooke Aviar (1937), Goerz Dopp-Anastigmat III Dagor (1912), Voigländer Heliar (1928) or Aldis Uno Series III (1903 design) mounted on EOS 5D or EOS 350D |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Thankyou Veijo, some very interesting reading there. I get the feeling I should have known some of that already, but better late than never! _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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