old time, significant medium format advice needed!

[rbelyell]

ive got a project where i'm kind of building a 6x12 camera. not as difficult as it sounds, and will go into it if someone really wants me to, but the point i,m at right now is i need a self focusing 90mm medium format lens with shutter for CHEAP.

i bought an old kodak camera, a 616 i believe, for like $40usd, that had a self focusing 127mm kodak lens, obviously with shutter. problem is the 127 is too long for my body. i need closer to 90mm. it can be on a camera now or separate from a camera. i'm just not sure what to search for on ebay. so if there is a specific lens, or a specific class or kind of camera that has this kind of lens, could someone tell me what it is?

thanks
tony

[luisalegria]

90mm lens with coverage for 6x12 isn't too hard.

A common and fairly cheap one (as these things go) is the Wollensak Raptar 90mm. Expect to pay $80-$100, with a nice Rapax shutter.

This covers 4x5 (barely, no movements), but is plenty for 6x12
This was the standard wide angle lens for Speed Graphics.

You can also find them marked as Graflex

The big problem is what you mean by self focusing. If you mean front-cell focusing as on a folder, you have a problem.

The front-cell focusing lenses I know of are all "Normals", i.e., just slightly wide. A 105mm will just cover 6x9
Your 127mm is the shortest that will barely cover 6x12, pretty much.
The 75-85mm ones were made to cover 4.5x6 or 6x6, and will not come near covering 6x12

I don't know of any front-cell focusing wide angle lens. That would be a very odd duck indeed.

If you don't have the bellows draw for 127mm, how about a tubular extension?

[rbelyell]

thanks luis, but yhe tube solution wont work because the result will not cover 6x12 frame. can you think of a way for me to get a 105mm self focusing lens? that might just make it...

[mmelvis]

How big is your camera body? I ask because you can get an old box camera that would fit your needs with a built in shutter and a lens. Some of the Conley Camera like the No3 or even the 4x5 may fit you needs.

[iangreenhalgh1]

Easiest way is to get an old Polaroid camera that used the roll type Polaroid film and convert it to use 120, pretty simple conversion and very cheap, lots of people have done it, it's not quite 6x12 though, more like 6x11:

http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00MtA1

If you can find one with the Rodenstock Ysarex 127mm lens then you'll have a great camera.

[luisalegria]

You can get a decent 105mm on any 6x9 folder that uses either 620 or 120 film. These will never cover 6x12 though.

Look for:

Kodak Monitors, Vigilants have 620 versions.

German ones - well, there were dozens of brands. Just search ebay for shutters - prontor was typical. Just look at the lens and the camera bed to see whether its a front cell focus type. Typical triplets are Schneider Radionar, Steinheil Cassar, Rodenstock Trinar, Meyer Trioplan, etc.

The Polaroid idea is a good one. These have good f/7.7 triplets, with rangefinders and unit focusing. You just have to convert them to 120 film.

Alternate idea - Kodak 2a and 3a folders. These are easier to convert to 120. The 3a's will do 6x14, the 2a's I think 6x11

[luisalegria]

Some current auctions with triplet front cell focusing 105mm's - you can figure out what to look for -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-GERMAN-PRONTOR-I-I-FOLDING-CAMERA-/350557642357?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item519edd1e75

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-F-Deckel-Munchen-Compur-Folding-Camera-Collectible-/221001121250?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item3374b17de2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kodak-Vigilant-SIX-20-Camera-/170825511812?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item27c5fe7384

[rbelyell]

thanks guys. luis those are exactly what i'm looking for. my plan is to attach it to my holga 120. thanks man.

[luisalegria]

You're welcome.
They wont do 6x12 though, no way at all.

[iangreenhalgh1]

[luisalegria]

Not so cheap those Tominons.

The Polaroids with the Rodenstocks in Printor shutters are also going for a premium because of all the people who convert them to 4x5.

You can get 6x11, pretty nearly, with an old Polaroid triplet. These were about 130mm f/8. Something from one of the old rollfilm polaroids, like this -

http://www.rwhirled.com/landlist/pics/campics/150.jpg

[iangreenhalgh1]

Yes, not so cheap, but cheaper than a Rodenstock or Schneider.:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COPAL-No-0-shutter-Tominon-105mm-lens-large-format-macro-closeup-4x5-6x6-6x9-/180862876135?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item2a1c4479e7#ht_2368wt_1396

Wish I'd bought an old Polaroid when they were still cheap...

[erkie]

I have an old Voigtlander Rollfilm Kamera that produces a 6.5mm x 11mm negative. The lens is an 11.4cm Skopar but it is not front cell focussing. I have wound some 120 film on the old spools and have a temporary mask built up. and get about 6x11 because of the mask. Not sure if the lens would cover a full 12mm. but there were several other older cameras that took the larger format roll film. Some may have had front cell focus ?

[iangreenhalgh1]

[erkie]

Yes it is 116 film camera . Nice lens but the compur shutter is a little strong in the spring and it shakes the les a bit at faster settings. I have some old verichrome film that I use once in a while and save the paper to roll up some 70 mm movie film onto the spools with . (portra mostly ).

[luisalegria]

Kodak sold a lot of 116 or 616 film cameras, all of them were front cell focus.
Some had triplets, some had modified Tessars.

[rbelyell]

thanks, i,ll look into those 616s...

[iangreenhalgh1]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-KODAK-SPECIAL-SIX-16-FOLDING-BED-BELLOWS-CAMERA-/230776951804?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item35bb60d3fc#ht_676wt_1163

25 bucks

[luisalegria]

Good find !

Thats a high-quality piece. Its one of the Kodak Germany items, Nagel made. I have a couple in 620, but older styling.
My "Kodak Anastigmat" lenses are triplets, but who knows what this one is. Some say Schneider made them.

The shutter is top of the line for the period, rim-set Compur that goes to 400.

This would be a great camera to convert to 120.