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Ivan Lee
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 230
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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 Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: Need help fixing Pancolar 50mm Aperture |
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Ivan Lee wrote:
I just bought my first Carl Zeiss lens, a Pancolar 50mm 1.8 Zebra, it was cheap because of the aperture... so I bought it to try to fix myself...
Does anyone have any experience with the Pancolar?
Here is a picture of it:
I have zero experience fixing lenses... 
Thanks! 
_________________
Ivan Lee Barcellos - Director of Photography
www.planoconjunto.com.br
Sony A7s
Lumix GH3
Minolta MC: Minolta MC 24/2.8 - Minolta MD 28/2 - Minolta MC 35/1.8 - Minolta MC 35/2.8 - Minolta MD 50/1.2 - Minolta MD Macro 50/3.5 - Minolta MD 100/2.5
Konica AR: Hexanon 28/3.5 - Hexanon 50/1.7 - Hexanon 57/1.4
M42: Industar 50-2 - CZ Pancolar 50/1.8
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WolverineX
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 1693
Location: Zagreb , Croatia , Europe
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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WolverineX wrote:
what was wrong with aperture to start with?
are those parts all you have?
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Ivan Lee
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 230
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ivan Lee wrote:
| WolverineX wrote: |
what was wrong with aperture to start with?
are those parts all you have? |
The aperture ring turns but the aperture stays full open...
Those are the only parts I have...I just removed the 3 screws in the back...
ah, when I pull the spring, the aperture open and closes... but not from the aperture ring....
Wow, this is so complicated... lol
_________________
Ivan Lee Barcellos - Director of Photography
www.planoconjunto.com.br
Sony A7s
Lumix GH3
Minolta MC: Minolta MC 24/2.8 - Minolta MD 28/2 - Minolta MC 35/1.8 - Minolta MC 35/2.8 - Minolta MD 50/1.2 - Minolta MD Macro 50/3.5 - Minolta MD 100/2.5
Konica AR: Hexanon 28/3.5 - Hexanon 50/1.7 - Hexanon 57/1.4
M42: Industar 50-2 - CZ Pancolar 50/1.8
Olympus OM: Zuiko Auto-Macro 50/3.5 - Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus |
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Ivan Lee
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 230
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ivan Lee wrote:
I forgot to mention...the aperture ring turns freely, without click stops.
_________________
Ivan Lee Barcellos - Director of Photography
www.planoconjunto.com.br
Sony A7s
Lumix GH3
Minolta MC: Minolta MC 24/2.8 - Minolta MD 28/2 - Minolta MC 35/1.8 - Minolta MC 35/2.8 - Minolta MD 50/1.2 - Minolta MD Macro 50/3.5 - Minolta MD 100/2.5
Konica AR: Hexanon 28/3.5 - Hexanon 50/1.7 - Hexanon 57/1.4
M42: Industar 50-2 - CZ Pancolar 50/1.8
Olympus OM: Zuiko Auto-Macro 50/3.5 - Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus |
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William
Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 489
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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William wrote:
I'm not sure how to fix the aperture but in regards to it turning freely it sounds like you are missing the ball bearing/s that make it click. |
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ludoo
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: Milan, Italy
Expire: 2011-12-05
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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ludoo wrote:
How this lens works is pretty easy, I posted a thread a while back.
First of all, the missing click stops are due to a missing ball which should be lodged under the focus ring, it's tiny and it rests on a small spring, which might also be missing. No big deal. If you find the spring, you can use the ball from a ball point pen (after having removed the ink of course), it should be similar.
As for aperture, looking at your picture there are two key parts that control it:
* on the left side at the 8 o'clock position, the small t-shaped part kept in place by two screws, is coupled to the aperture mechanism and transmits the aperture ring movement
* on the right side, at the 1 o'clock position, the small lever held in place by a screw controls the auto/manual aperture functions; the spring on its bottom part serves to keep it in the "open" (auto) position, while the steel cable (inside the long springy tube) serves to transmit the auto/manual switch and auto pin movements, so that aperture closes
Try to rotate the second part anti-clockwise (so that its bottom spring tensions), then rotate the aperture ring, and check what happens. If everything works, your problem is probably on a third key part, the one at the bottom in the 6 o'clock position. It's spring loaded, and it gets pressed by the auto pin when it's depressed, or pressed and kept in place by the auto/manual switch when set to auto. Check that it moves freely ad the long cable really transmits its movement to the second part above.
Edit: having checked your picture again, I think that the long steel cable broke in the past (same thing happened to mine) and was replaced by a custom-made one, which is too long to fully rotate the top lever, so the aperture is essentially always in the auto (open) position. It probably happened at the same time when the ball bearing was lost. 
_________________
My galleries
Digital: Samsung EX-1
Past Digital: Samsung NX10, Sigma SD9, Sigma SD10, SD14, DP2, Pentax *istD, Kx, Fuji S2 Pro, Canon 5D
Analog: packfilm Polaroids, 6x9 Kodak folders, Pentacon Taxona half-frame, Fujica ST605n, Walz Envoy, Olympus 35 S-II, Olympus Wide S
Past Analog: Polaroid 600se, Polaroid 110B, Canon IIF, various fixed-lens and Russian rangefinders, ...
Past Lenses: Nikkor 24/2.8, Nikkor SC 50/1.4, Nikkor 50/2, Nikkor H 85/1.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5, Nikkor Q 135/3.5, Fujinon 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 135/3.5, Fujinon EBC 200/4.5, Mamiya SX 135/2.8, CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 zebra, CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5, ...
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
It seems than not the same aperture mechanism of the black MC pancolar 50.
Perhaps your lens is more complex, I guess.
If you tell us what's wrong, one of us can oriented to you.
Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:22 am Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
I hope that this can help.
http://www.ydo.abelgratis.co.uk/pancolar.html
Good luck.
Rino
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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Morfeus
Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Morfeus wrote:
Ivan, what happens if you put the lens together again and then press the silver pin? |
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Ivan Lee
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 230
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Ivan Lee wrote:
| ludoo wrote: |
How this lens works is pretty easy, I posted a thread a while back.
First of all, the missing click stops are due to a missing ball which should be lodged under the focus ring, it's tiny and it rests on a small spring, which might also be missing. No big deal. If you find the spring, you can use the ball from a ball point pen (after having removed the ink of course), it should be similar.
As for aperture, looking at your picture there are two key parts that control it:
* on the left side at the 8 o'clock position, the small t-shaped part kept in place by two screws, is coupled to the aperture mechanism and transmits the aperture ring movement
* on the right side, at the 1 o'clock position, the small lever held in place by a screw controls the auto/manual aperture functions; the spring on its bottom part serves to keep it in the "open" (auto) position, while the steel cable (inside the long springy tube) serves to transmit the auto/manual switch and auto pin movements, so that aperture closes
Try to rotate the second part anti-clockwise (so that its bottom spring tensions), then rotate the aperture ring, and check what happens. If everything works, your problem is probably on a third key part, the one at the bottom in the 6 o'clock position. It's spring loaded, and it gets pressed by the auto pin when it's depressed, or pressed and kept in place by the auto/manual switch when set to auto. Check that it moves freely ad the long cable really transmits its movement to the second part above.
Edit: having checked your picture again, I think that the long steel cable broke in the past (same thing happened to mine) and was replaced by a custom-made one, which is too long to fully rotate the top lever, so the aperture is essentially always in the auto (open) position. It probably happened at the same time when the ball bearing was lost. |
Thanks so much for your help!!
I tried everything you mentioned... but the aperture is acting in a bizarre way... now it will not stay fully open...
About the steel cable, what could I do now? There are some screws that are so small that I did not try anything... So I put the lens back together and the aperture now stays closed at f/4, and I can open until f/2.8, but don't open more than that... and when I close past f/4 the aperture will not close...it stays at f/4.
At least I have 2 functional apertures! lol... and I fixed the click-stops! I put the small ball bearing in the spring... now it clicks!
_________________
Ivan Lee Barcellos - Director of Photography
www.planoconjunto.com.br
Sony A7s
Lumix GH3
Minolta MC: Minolta MC 24/2.8 - Minolta MD 28/2 - Minolta MC 35/1.8 - Minolta MC 35/2.8 - Minolta MD 50/1.2 - Minolta MD Macro 50/3.5 - Minolta MD 100/2.5
Konica AR: Hexanon 28/3.5 - Hexanon 50/1.7 - Hexanon 57/1.4
M42: Industar 50-2 - CZ Pancolar 50/1.8
Olympus OM: Zuiko Auto-Macro 50/3.5 - Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus |
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ludoo
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: Milan, Italy
Expire: 2011-12-05
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: |
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ludoo wrote:
Hmmm, is there oil on the aperture blades?
As for the cable, you can replace it with something else of the right length.
You can also make the lens fully manual,, like I did on mine.
_________________
My galleries
Digital: Samsung EX-1
Past Digital: Samsung NX10, Sigma SD9, Sigma SD10, SD14, DP2, Pentax *istD, Kx, Fuji S2 Pro, Canon 5D
Analog: packfilm Polaroids, 6x9 Kodak folders, Pentacon Taxona half-frame, Fujica ST605n, Walz Envoy, Olympus 35 S-II, Olympus Wide S
Past Analog: Polaroid 600se, Polaroid 110B, Canon IIF, various fixed-lens and Russian rangefinders, ...
Past Lenses: Nikkor 24/2.8, Nikkor SC 50/1.4, Nikkor 50/2, Nikkor H 85/1.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5, Nikkor Q 135/3.5, Fujinon 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 135/3.5, Fujinon EBC 200/4.5, Mamiya SX 135/2.8, CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 zebra, CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5, ...
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Ivan Lee
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 230
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ivan Lee wrote:
| ludoo wrote: |
Hmmm, is there oil on the aperture blades?
As for the cable, you can replace it with something else of the right length.
You can also make the lens fully manual,, like I did on mine. |
There is no oil on the blades.
But there is something else... when I removed the back of the lens, it came off 2 small balls, one I did what you told me, to put in the spring...now the click stops work... but what about the other ball?
And how can I make it fully manual?
thanks!
_________________
Ivan Lee Barcellos - Director of Photography
www.planoconjunto.com.br
Sony A7s
Lumix GH3
Minolta MC: Minolta MC 24/2.8 - Minolta MD 28/2 - Minolta MC 35/1.8 - Minolta MC 35/2.8 - Minolta MD 50/1.2 - Minolta MD Macro 50/3.5 - Minolta MD 100/2.5
Konica AR: Hexanon 28/3.5 - Hexanon 50/1.7 - Hexanon 57/1.4
M42: Industar 50-2 - CZ Pancolar 50/1.8
Olympus OM: Zuiko Auto-Macro 50/3.5 - Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus |
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sadness
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 49
Location: Constanta, Romania
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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sadness wrote:
While rotating the aperture ring you must press the pin from the mount for the aperture to close.
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VitGryfny
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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VitGryfny wrote:
Hi guys,
I think you can help me I have posted a new thread however no response yet maybe due to imprecise description. Nevertheless please take a look as the photos may be sufficient for further discussion and advising.
http://forum.mflenses.com/pancolar-50-1-8-aperture-not-working-t48366.html
The problem is similar to Ivan Lee's however it is about Pancolar 1.8 50mm. Aperture ring works loosely and does not affect at apertures position. No clicking too.. the only way to set it is to use M/A switch but it is very tiring.
Here are some photos, the metal ball is in position but I don't have a clue how to assemble it and get it back to working. f11 value is on the counterside of the metal ball on the outer side of the ring. How to put this part:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LmYUT-KphVwn7oHup8XMa9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
How to position it against other parts of the lens to get it finally back to working.
I suppose that the spring is just too short or something.
Should you have further questions do not hesitate to contact me.
Photos:
[/img] |
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eddieitman
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 1246
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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eddieitman wrote:
http://forum.mflenses.com/the-easy-way-to-clean-and-re-lube-a-carl-zeiss-pancolar-18-t43840.html
I posted some closeups of the mecanisms in there maybe of use to you
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Life is like a camera. Focus on what's important, capture the good times, develop from the negatives and if things don't work out, just take another shot. |
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VitGryfny
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: |
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VitGryfny wrote:
Thanks very much however your Pancolar is a different model and mechanisms are different. Can you identify the part I provided a picasa link for? |
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