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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: Voigtländer 1.4/55mm Color-Ultron: Mamiya thus Tomioka? |
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Pancolart wrote:
OK it is said to be made by Mamiya. But it is also said Tomioka made Mamiya 1.4/55mm lenses so... Could we please clarify this question.
Talking about this AR version: http://captjack.exaktaphile.com/rollei/Rolleilenses.htm
It is then valid also for: Rolleinar 1.4/55mm = Voigtländer 1.4/55mm Color-Ultron AR = Mamiya = Tomioka ??? _________________ ---------------------------------
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Well had to borrow Mamiya to make sure. I can confirm all three being the same lens with minor differences like aperture ring going opposite way on Mamiya. Ultron and Rolleinar have later purple coating whereas my SX still is classic yellow. For me now the question is where did this line finish. Which lens inherited this optimal build of Tomioka?
Here the family:
Some links:
http://mamiya-nc-m42.mflenses.com/m42_mamiya_sx_55_1.4.htm
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/85327-mamiya-dtl-55mm-1-4-opinions-compatabillity-issue.html
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/RolleiflexSL35E.html
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Rollei_QBM_Schneider_dt.html _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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ludoo
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Milan, Italy
Expire: 2011-12-05
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: |
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ludoo wrote:
I had a Mamiya Auto Sekor 1.4 and it was definitely a Tomioka design, as the back element was completely flat. I personally saw another one owned by an acquaintance, and while externally identical it had a different optical scheme as the back element was convex.
So I wouldn't generalize and call all Mamiya Tomioka-derived or Tomioka-built lenses. _________________ My galleries
Digital: Samsung EX-1
Past Digital: Samsung NX10, Sigma SD9, Sigma SD10, SD14, DP2, Pentax *istD, Kx, Fuji S2 Pro, Canon 5D
Analog: packfilm Polaroids, 6x9 Kodak folders, Pentacon Taxona half-frame, Fujica ST605n, Walz Envoy, Olympus 35 S-II, Olympus Wide S
Past Analog: Polaroid 600se, Polaroid 110B, Canon IIF, various fixed-lens and Russian rangefinders, ...
Past Lenses: Nikkor 24/2.8, Nikkor SC 50/1.4, Nikkor 50/2, Nikkor H 85/1.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5, Nikkor Q 135/3.5, Fujinon 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 135/3.5, Fujinon EBC 200/4.5, Mamiya SX 135/2.8, CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 zebra, CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5, ...
altroformato
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Good point. At some stage flat back element was gone as with all above.
Tomioka named, as-well Rikenons and pre SX Mamiyas still have flat one:
http://www.mu-43.com/f17/fs-rikenon-55mm-f1-4-m42-ex-sigma-k-mount-400mm-f5-6-ug-worldwide-9022/
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/50524-why-no-love-mamiya-sekor.html
Would be nice to compare what changes brought the evolution of back element? Well, i have both versions so good idea for a shootout.
Similar topic already discussed: http://forum.mflenses.com/tomioka-zeiss-mamiya-and-55-1-4-design-t22661.html _________________ ---------------------------------
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Can you please clarify about the rear elements of your 3 lenses? Are all of them convex? |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Yes. 3x the same design without doubt. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
Yes. 3x the same design without doubt. |
Interesting. As I told before the first Mamiya/Secor lens in my gallery also has convex rear element. It doesn't look like a late model. I would rather bet it is the first model. So an evolution of this lens went from convex rear element to flat rear element to convex rear element once again. The question is whether 2 convex element designs are the same though. |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
One more thing to think about. Late Voigtländer is associated with Cosina. Cosina is suspected as one of the late producer of 55/1.4 lenses. May be all these 3 lenses are Cosina made? |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
dimitrygo wrote: |
Pancolart wrote: |
Yes. 3x the same design without doubt. |
Interesting. As I told before the first Mamiya/Secor lens in my gallery also has convex rear element. It doesn't look like a late model. I would rather bet it is the first model. So an evolution of this lens went from convex rear element to flat rear element to convex rear element once again. The question is whether 2 convex element designs are the same though. |
First from top has flat element. I have three such samples. It is very cool you pointed out the rear flat element distinction. If that design is genuine only CHINON remained loyal to it. Even late PK mount lenses have it! The same diameter. And they are the only ones as i can tell. Every other possible Tomioka successor lost it. CHINON is also special about aperture blades set which is distinctive to all others.
I am still not 100% sure regarding COSINA and it's 1.4/55mm line. Later M42 coatings seems really genuine especially that red one available also as PORST REFLEX. But i seriously doubt their lens housings were ever of such high standards as found with Mamiya or Yashica Tomiokas. _________________ ---------------------------------
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
First from top has flat element. |
Now I am confused. I asked you before if all of them have convex rear element and you said they do. Now you say one of them doesn't. Can you please list all 3 lenses and say what type of rear element each of them has? |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I was referring to your reply and first Mamiya lens in your gallery. I claim it has flat rear element since older model. Those 3 i posted above are convex. _________________ ---------------------------------
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
I was referring to your reply and first Mamiya lens in your gallery. I claim it has flat rear element since older model. Those 3 i posted above are convex. |
OK I understood. Be sure this first Maiya/Sekor lens in my gallery has a convex rear element since I have this lens. Actually the lens in the gallery is not mine but mine is identical, including even broken plastic cover of A/M switch.
Last edited by dimitrygo on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Could you please point to the exact model please Dimitry so our communication mistake is excluded . _________________ ---------------------------------
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
Could you please point to the exact model please Dimitry so our communication mistake is excluded . |
I am talking about the very first Maiya/Sekor lens listed in my gallery, that one without a caption. On this photo you can even see its convex rear element:
https://picasaweb.google.com/dimitrygo/55mmF14LensesInAlphabeticalOrder#5563993666487883042 |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Photo doesn't say much but i believe you of course. Went to check upon my collection (again) and was nearly ready to dismiss your claim since all M42 had flat element when i picked beautiful YASHINON-DX serial 5487833 and it had convex rear . Sadly i have only one of this type thus cannot talk about any pattern. But wait it's 50mm not 55mm. It's like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexaia/3396600803/
Would there be chance your Mamiya had it's rear element replaced? _________________ ---------------------------------
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
Would there be chance your Mamiya had it's rear element replaced? |
As far as I can conclude from pictures of other lenses the rear element of my lens has different bracing from later Mamiya/Rolleinar lenses and from Yashika 50/1.4 lens. It is identical in every aspect to this lens apart from being convex https://picasaweb.google.com/dimitrygo/55mmF14LensesInAlphabeticalOrder#5422581439576312322 |
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Ingo
Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 71 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ingo wrote:
I have the Mamiya Auto Sekor 1.4 and also the original Tomioka version, called Auto Tominon. I think, this is the same lens.
best regards
Ingo _________________ Sigma SD9, SD14; Flektogon 2.8/20, 2.4/35; CZJ Sonnar 3.5/135, 2.8/180 T; Meyer Optik Trioplan 2.8/100V, Orestor 2.8/100, Pentacon 4/300;
Mamiya Sekor 2.8/35, 1.4/55, 3.5/200; Pentax SMC Takumar 3.5/28, Supertakumar 1.4/50; Tomioka Auto-Tominon 1.4/55; Yashinon DS-M 1.7/50; Helios-40
http://www.pbase.com/inghar |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
This Voigtländer Color-Ultron 1.4/55 Click here to see on Ebay.de seems pretty interesting with "Lens made in West Germany" stated as origin. All samples i've seen so far had Japan (Mamiya Rollei too). _________________ ---------------------------------
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
It has a typical Rollei Design so maybe it's made by Rollei?
Some other "Voigtländer" lenses like the Voigtländer Color Ultron 50/1.8 are identical to 50/1.8 CZ Planar and Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
They were Rollei/CZ license copys and produced in both Singapur and West Germany.
And the design of the casing looks very similar to the 55/1.4 _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I think it's only early Japan version and they might be less strict with origin declaration at the time. _________________ ---------------------------------
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