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Nikon/Nikkor 50mm 1.4
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Nikon/Nikkor 50mm 1.4 Reply with quote
I bought a Nikon/Nikkor 50mm 1.4 today from a local seller.



I read good things about this lens. And I'm sure users in this forum have good things to say about it too (I hope).

And when I returned home, I saw in a local forum someone selling a Nikon FM2N. I'm still waiting for his reply to my request for photos of the camera. I'm crossing my fingers that it's not banged up.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That lens appears to be a 'K' version (i.e., pre-AI) by the serial number.... http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast manufactured between 1974 and 1976. This is the lens: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/k5014.jpg

It should be able to mount on your planned FM2N; stop-down metering only unless the lens has already been AI-modified.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
james wrote:
That lens appears to be a 'K' version (i.e., pre-AI) by the serial number.... http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast manufactured between 1974 and 1976. This is the lens: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/k5014.jpg

It should be able to mount on your planned FM2N; stop-down metering only unless the lens has already been AI-modified.


Well we cannot tell from the photo, but it looks like the MC version of the 1964 lens made after 1974 and until 1977 or so.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FluffPuppy wrote:
james wrote:
That lens appears to be a 'K' version (i.e., pre-AI) by the serial number.... http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast manufactured between 1974 and 1976. This is the lens: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/k5014.jpg

It should be able to mount on your planned FM2N; stop-down metering only unless the lens has already been AI-modified.


Well we cannot tell from the photo, but it looks like the MC version of the 1964 lens made after 1974 and until 1977 or so.


Actually we can; the serial number 2809051 corresponds to a 'K' lens, made from '74-76. Look it up on the link I included, click on "50-58 fast".


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
james wrote:
FluffPuppy wrote:
james wrote:
That lens appears to be a 'K' version (i.e., pre-AI) by the serial number.... http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast manufactured between 1974 and 1976. This is the lens: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/k5014.jpg

It should be able to mount on your planned FM2N; stop-down metering only unless the lens has already been AI-modified.


Well we cannot tell from the photo, but it looks like the MC version of the 1964 lens made after 1974 and until 1977 or so.


Actually we can; the serial number 2809051 corresponds to a 'K' lens, made from '74-76. Look it up on the link I included, click on "50-58 fast".


Well, it could have been modified, needless to say (ahem) to the AI coupling. That's the issue I was getting at. I know it was made between 74 and 77, that was not the issue. The issue is whether it is AI coupled, and we can't tell that from the photo.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FluffPuppy wrote:
james wrote:
FluffPuppy wrote:
james wrote:
That lens appears to be a 'K' version (i.e., pre-AI) by the serial number.... http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast manufactured between 1974 and 1976. This is the lens: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/k5014.jpg

It should be able to mount on your planned FM2N; stop-down metering only unless the lens has already been AI-modified.


Well we cannot tell from the photo, but it looks like the MC version of the 1964 lens made after 1974 and until 1977 or so.


Actually we can; the serial number 2809051 corresponds to a 'K' lens, made from '74-76. Look it up on the link I included, click on "50-58 fast".


Well, it could have been modified, needless to say (ahem) to the AI coupling. That's the issue I was getting at. I know it was made between 74 and 77, that was not the issue. The issue is whether it is AI coupled, and we can't tell that from the photo.


Ah, wasn't clear that's what you were referring to. In that case, you are correct.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
james wrote:
FluffPuppy wrote:
james wrote:
FluffPuppy wrote:
james wrote:
That lens appears to be a 'K' version (i.e., pre-AI) by the serial number.... http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast manufactured between 1974 and 1976. This is the lens: http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/k5014.jpg

It should be able to mount on your planned FM2N; stop-down metering only unless the lens has already been AI-modified.


Well we cannot tell from the photo, but it looks like the MC version of the 1964 lens made after 1974 and until 1977 or so.


Actually we can; the serial number 2809051 corresponds to a 'K' lens, made from '74-76. Look it up on the link I included, click on "50-58 fast".


Well, it could have been modified, needless to say (ahem) to the AI coupling. That's the issue I was getting at. I know it was made between 74 and 77, that was not the issue. The issue is whether it is AI coupled, and we can't tell that from the photo.


Ah, wasn't clear that's what you were referring to. In that case, you are correct.


In any event, it is easy to get AI coupled lenses for the FM2n camera, so.....we're putting the cart before the horse here.

For example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mint-Nikon-Nikkor-AI-50-mm-f-1-4-Fast-Prime-Manual-Focus-Lens-/300646137101?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item45ffe7fd0d


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi guys. I'm generally a film photography noob. I briefly scanned what is pre-AI and AI and I'm kind of worried now.

This is what I did to test. I set the ISO to 1600 (it's already night here) and set the aperture to 1.4. I then metered from different objects to see whether the exposure indicator moves. It did. However, pointing at the same object I narrowed down the aperture until f/16 and the exposure indicator didn't change. It only changed when I pressed the DOF preview button.

I guess this means my lens isn't modded to detect the lens aperture while just viewing, is it?

So stopping down means I need to always press the DOF preview button to see whether I'm exposing correctly, if not adjust the shutter speed, release the DOF preview button, focus and shoot (ignore whatever the exposure indicator tells me because at that point it's for 1.4 again and not the set aperture).

Am I correct?


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cmontoya wrote:
Hi guys. I'm generally a film photography noob. I briefly scanned what is pre-AI and AI and I'm kind of worried now.

This is what I did to test. I set the ISO to 1600 (it's already night here) and set the aperture to 1.4. I then metered from different objects to see whether the exposure indicator moves. It did. However, pointing at the same object I narrowed down the aperture until f/16 and the exposure indicator didn't change. It only changed when I pressed the DOF preview button.

I guess this means my lens isn't modded to detect the lens aperture while just viewing, is it?

So stopping down means I need to always press the DOF preview button to see whether I'm exposing correctly, if not adjust the shutter speed, release the DOF preview button, focus and shoot (ignore whatever the exposure indicator tells me because at that point it's for 1.4 again and not the set aperture).

Am I correct?


Test what? What camera are you using?

AI lenses have a cam at the rear of the lens, pre-AI lenses don't, but have a yoke for the pin on the camera body.

Here is an AI lens:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikortek.htm#ai

Here is how it connects:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41fcNN7bKvL.jpg

See the small cog at 2:00 on the lens mount? That catches the cam.

Here is a pre-AI lens:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikortek.htm#f

Here is how it connects:

http://static.flickr.com/115/289068037_0f29592114.jpg

Before the AI system was introduced, you had to set the lens to f/5.6, move the pin all the way clockwise, then mount the lens. After mounting, you had to rotate the diaphragm control all the way to the left to 'index' the lens, so the camera knew what the maximum aperture was. It was a cumbersome system.

http://www.thecamerasite.net/01_SLR_Cameras/Images/Nikkormat.jpg

The Automatic Indexing system eliminated all of that.

Last edited by FluffPuppy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:24 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your results with mereing changing only during DoF previw are normal. With Non-ai lenses (the 'nose' or 'rabbit ears' are solid) is normal and indicates everything functions well. With aperture-coupled cameras ,the camera calculates the required exposure based on the settings and available light. With non-coupled lenses (e.g., a non-ai lens on a newer Nikon camera) the camera cannot tell what aperture the lens is set at so only calculates exposure based on the light available through the lens (always wide open.) So to meter with an older lens, set the aperture, hit the DoF preview button, and see the correct exposure results. That's the only way to do it. And it's a very reliable metering practice that will likely yield high-quality photos with good exposure.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
David wrote:
Your results with mereing changing only during DoF previw are normal. With Non-ai lenses (the 'nose' or 'rabbit ears' are solid) is normal and indicates everything functions well. With aperture-coupled cameras ,the camera calculates the required exposure based on the settings and available light. With non-coupled lenses (e.g., a non-ai lens on a newer Nikon camera) the camera cannot tell what aperture the lens is set at so only calculates exposure based on the light available through the lens (always wide open.) So to meter with an older lens, set the aperture, hit the DoF preview button, and see the correct exposure results. That's the only way to do it. And it's a very reliable metering practice that will likely yield high-quality photos with good exposure.


Yes, but why not simply get an AI lens for an AI camera? It's not like they are made of gold!

LOL





PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FluffPuppy wrote:
Yes, but why not simply get an AI lens for an AI camera? It's not like they are made of gold!

In case you didn't notice, we kinda use lenses on cameras that they weren't designed for. Cool Cool Cool


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
FluffPuppy wrote:
Yes, but why not simply get an AI lens for an AI camera? It's not like they are made of gold!

In case you didn't notice, we kinda use lenses on cameras that they weren't designed for. Cool Cool Cool


Oh I see! Masochists?


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@David: Yes, that's what I did in a nutshell. Of course, I first tested whether I had an pre-AI or AI lens (I didn't know what each one looked like) by checking whether the camera's exposure indicator changes when I change the aperture provided I pointed at the same subject at the same ISO/shutter speed. It didn't so that's why I knew last night I had a pre-AI lens.

@Fluff: Smile, I'm a Canon user and I have a friend who's a Nikon user and he was talking about AI and pre-AI before but I didn't pay attention because at that time I didn't want to do anything with Nikon. I also bought the 50mm 1.4 lens without researching. I thought nothing about AI and pre-AI (simply because I thought all Nikon MF lenses were the same) and when I tested it, I used it wide open. I guess it was pretty ignorant.

This just means that I'd be shooting a bit slower. Just this morning I had to practice using the DOF preview button with my left hand's pointing finger and using my right's pointing finger to adjust shutter speed.

Yes, next time I would buy AI lenses only.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cmontoya wrote:
@David: Yes, that's what I did in a nutshell. Of course, I first tested whether I had an pre-AI or AI lens (I didn't know what each one looked like) by checking whether the camera's exposure indicator changes when I change the aperture provided I pointed at the same subject at the same ISO/shutter speed. It didn't so that's why I knew last night I had a pre-AI lens.

@Fluff: Smile, I'm a Canon user and I have a friend who's a Nikon user and he was talking about AI and pre-AI before but I didn't pay attention because at that time I didn't want to do anything with Nikon. I also bought the 50mm 1.4 lens without researching. I thought nothing about AI and pre-AI (simply because I thought all Nikon MF lenses were the same) and when I tested it, I used it wide open. I guess it was pretty ignorant.

This just means that I'd be shooting a bit slower. Just this morning I had to practice using the DOF preview button with my left hand's pointing finger and using my right's pointing finger to adjust shutter speed.

Yes, next time I would buy AI lenses only.


Just sell it and get the AI version, would be my advice.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cmontoya wrote:
@David: Yes, that's what I did in a nutshell. Of course, I first tested whether I had an pre-AI or AI lens (I didn't know what each one looked like) by checking whether the camera's exposure indicator changes when I change the aperture provided I pointed at the same subject at the same ISO/shutter speed. It didn't so that's why I knew last night I had a pre-AI lens.

@Fluff: Smile, I'm a Canon user and I have a friend who's a Nikon user and he was talking about AI and pre-AI before but I didn't pay attention because at that time I didn't want to do anything with Nikon. I also bought the 50mm 1.4 lens without researching. I thought nothing about AI and pre-AI (simply because I thought all Nikon MF lenses were the same) and when I tested it, I used it wide open. I guess it was pretty ignorant.

This just means that I'd be shooting a bit slower. Just this morning I had to practice using the DOF preview button with my left hand's pointing finger and using my right's pointing finger to adjust shutter speed.

Yes, next time I would buy AI lenses only.


I don't understand why you'd think an AI lens would be any better on a Canon than the lens you have...

...usually the "K" lenses are optically and mechanically identical to the later AI version, only missing, in some instances, the AI aperture ring with the cut at the rear, such as the compact 135/2.8 "K", the version released AFTER the Q.C, the 50/2 "K" AND the 50/1.4 you have...
...though in some cases K lenses are optically and mechanically different (such as the 135/2.8Q.C "K", cosmetically a "K" but in all other aspects a "Q" 135/2.8 )
...AIS lenses are different in several cases, optically with different design/grouping of glass elements, (the 180/2.8 and the 300/4.5), and mechanically with different focusing ratios...AIS typically have shorter rotational throw focusing barrels (from MFD to INF), as well as the construction of the mount, (notch, rear baffle), and with a hood (105/2.5ais)


PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
@mfkita: Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't plan on using a Nikon lens on a Canon body. I just bought a Nikon FM2n and I was informed by the others that I had a pre-AI lens that need stop-down metering. I Googled for what these things mean and I tested the lens last night and confirmed that I have indeed a pre-AI lens. I also learned what stop-down metering means.

I responded that in the future I'd be getting only AI lenses (for the FM2n) so I don't have to do stop-down metering. I don't want to sell the lens yet because I just bought it.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cmontoya wrote:
@mfkita: Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't plan on using a Nikon lens on a Canon body. I just bought a Nikon FM2n and I was informed by the others that I had a pre-AI lens that need stop-down metering. I Googled for what these things mean and I tested the lens last night and confirmed that I have indeed a pre-AI lens. I also learned what stop-down metering means.

I responded that in the future I'd be getting only AI lenses (for the FM2n) so I don't have to do stop-down metering. I don't want to sell the lens yet because I just bought it.


Ahhhhhhh....I see said the blind man to the......

Well, if you should sell the "K", you can get more for the 50/1.4 K than you might think...because the longer focus throw (vs the AIS version) VideoPhotographers prefer it for the more gradual focusing it provides...Canon VPs who don't need the AI lenses, and users of older and more basic...cheaper....Nikon video-SLRs ....just mention that in your advert....

...in any case, 50/1.4 AIS lenses aren't very expensive....and you might even sell the "K" for more than its replacement... Wink


PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cmontoya wrote:
@mfkita: Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't plan on using a Nikon lens on a Canon body. I just bought a Nikon FM2n and I was informed by the others that I had a pre-AI lens that need stop-down metering. I Googled for what these things mean and I tested the lens last night and confirmed that I have indeed a pre-AI lens. I also learned what stop-down metering means.

I responded that in the future I'd be getting only AI lenses (for the FM2n) so I don't have to do stop-down metering. I don't want to sell the lens yet because I just bought it.


Well I'm not sure what to say to that. If you are attached to that particular lens, the easiest thing to do would be simply to have it modified, but I assure you the later (post-1977) model is in every way a superior lens, and it is going to couple with the camera meter to allow wide-open metering.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Having the lens modified isn't expensive, but needs to be done right. I've had a couple done by John White http://www.aiconversions.com/. He does a clean, precise job. The only thing that doesn't look good can't be helped. AI/AI-S versions had aperture rings with dual f/stop readouts: one for normal use and a second, smaller set that is visible through the viewfinders of 1970s and 1980s Nikon cameras. Since those rings are no longer available for most lenses, a conversion includes adding a printed tape of the f/stops in the right size so it can be visible through the viewfinder.

I have an earlier version of the same lens, serial number 1351157, a single-coated S.C. made in 1973. I preferred using this lens to any other Nikkor 50 I've had (50/2 Ai, 50/1.8 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai, AF-S 50/1.4G). Primarily I liked the focus and the overall feel of the lens. Yes, I know. Laboratory measurements prove that newer Nikon 50/1.4 lenses are better, and they probably are, but I don't get better photos from them, except wide open. The newer ones are better wide open.

Lab measurements really don't prove the value of a lens to an individual, because in many cases, the differences just aren't discernible under normal conditions. In case you noted that I said 'preferred', past tense, I no longer use this lens. The helicoid has become dry, and I really can't justify spending over $100 to rejuvenate a lens that isn't even worth that much. And, since I have a pair of MF 50s (f/1.8 and f/1.2) to use with my old Nikons, I won't bother. Also, no. I won't take it apart myself to lube it. It's retired.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arninetyes wrote:
Having the lens modified isn't expensive, but needs to be done right. I've had a couple done by John White http://www.aiconversions.com/. He does a clean, precise job. The only thing that doesn't look good can't be helped. AI/AI-S versions had aperture rings with dual f/stop readouts: one for normal use and a second, smaller set that is visible through the viewfinders of 1970s and 1980s Nikon cameras. Since those rings are no longer available for most lenses, a conversion includes adding a printed tape of the f/stops in the right size so it can be visible through the viewfinder.

I have an earlier version of the same lens, serial number 1351157, a single-coated S.C. made in 1973. I preferred using this lens to any other Nikkor 50 I've had (50/2 Ai, 50/1.8 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai, AF-S 50/1.4G). Primarily I liked the focus and the overall feel of the lens. Yes, I know. Laboratory measurements prove that newer Nikon 50/1.4 lenses are better, and they probably are, but I don't get better photos from them, except wide open. The newer ones are better wide open.

Lab measurements really don't prove the value of a lens to an individual, because in many cases, the differences just aren't discernible under normal conditions. In case you noted that I said 'preferred', past tense, I no longer use this lens. The helicoid has become dry, and I really can't justify spending over $100 to rejuvenate a lens that isn't even worth that much. And, since I have a pair of MF 50s (f/1.8 and f/1.2) to use with my old Nikons, I won't bother. Also, no. I won't take it apart myself to lube it. It's retired.


I am surprised at that service cost.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a very nice lens, the only thing I doesn't like about it is the render - it is too busy for my taste. Otherwise - great sharpness and contrast and everything even from 1.4, I have shooted a little with it on my Pentax K200D. It fits Pentax by the way very easily.

Nikkor 50 1.4


PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FluffPuppy wrote:
I am surprised at that service cost.


Might be able to have it partially dismantled and simply lubed. I've never looked into it. I'm only familiar with the cost of a full CLA. The last one I had done was on my 25-50/4, and it was $120. It was well worth it, though.
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