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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: How does this "bulk roll B&W is inexpensive " |
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tikkathree wrote:
From another thread:
Attila wrote: |
Stay on film, bulk roll B&W is inexpensive , film is my full frame also. |
I mean what film 35mm or MF? If 35mm how do you get it into the ickle cannister?
What's the processes involved please? _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
My experience with bulk loading 35mm is from the 1970's, I am sure I haven't done it since @1979, but here goes -
For best results and most convenience you need a bulk loader. Thats a device that you load with the 100' bulk roll, in a dark bag, and can then use to transfer film into 35mm canisters. Most bulk loaders are "daylight", that is once they are loaded with bulk film you can load canisters in the light.
You need empty 35mm canisters, some people use empties from the photo labs, some swear that you need the special reloadable kind.
This is a nice tutorial, details may vary depending on the bulk loader and canister type.
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-use-a-35mm-film-bulk-loader/#step1 _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I just checked some prices. Its not THAT inexpensive. Or its not as inexpensive as it used to be.
To compare - per-roll cost of Kodak TMax400 and other prices from Freestyle Photo and ebay -
- Bulk - $3.44/roll (this is the film only, i.e., consumable cost, loader and reusable canister costs would be "fixed" and amortized over however many rolls you eventually load)
- Regular film package - loaded at the factory - $5.39
With Kodak TMax 400 you save almost $2 per roll on consumables.
A reasonable deal for bulk loaders on ebay is @$10-15, and reloadable cassettes are @ $0.50-0.80 or so, so you wouldn't need to roll many before you start saving on TMax, if you develop your own. Figure a $ 20 investment all in, so after roll #10 you are saving money.
If you send out for processing you will lose the cassettes, so they also become a consumable.
The economics change a lot for cheaper film. Arista Edu Ultra is 1.88 and 2.59 respectively, so consumable savings are only $0.71 per roll. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: Re: How does this "bulk roll B&W is inexpensive &qu |
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Excalibur wrote:
tikkathree wrote: |
From another thread:
Attila wrote: |
Stay on film, bulk roll B&W is inexpensive , film is my full frame also. |
I mean what film 35mm or MF? If 35mm how do you get it into the ickle cannister?
What's the processes involved please? |
I'm still using some bulk B/W film from about 1980 IIRC many moons ago you could get cinema b/w film cut (or as it was) into cans of 100ft rolls cheap. _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
My experience with bulk loading 35mm is from the 1970's, I am sure I haven't done it since @1979, but here goes -
For best results and most convenience you need a bulk loader. Thats a device that you load with the 100' bulk roll, in a dark bag, and can then use to transfer film into 35mm canisters. Most bulk loaders are "daylight", that is once they are loaded with bulk film you can load canisters in the light.
You need empty 35mm canisters, some people use empties from the photo labs, some swear that you need the special reloadable kind.
This is a nice tutorial, details may vary depending on the bulk loader and canister type.
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-use-a-35mm-film-bulk-loader/#step1 |
+1 _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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dof
Joined: 04 Feb 2009 Posts: 339 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:49 am Post subject: |
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dof wrote:
I come across lots of expired film and I buy that at about $1/roll or less. I find them at yard sales and cameras shows. I mostly just use B&W and process myself. Can't beat that price with bulk loading. But once in a while I come across an outdated bulk roll of B&W real cheap. But, I just sell it and buy more outdated retail rolls. |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
Thanks all for replying and I will watch the tutorial next. I have strictly zero intentions of getting into home developing (it's the taking of pictures which gives me the buzz) so any financial gain will be in the purchase of film. My local shop, Studio Five http://www.studio-five.co.uk/ are excellent at dev and print to CD for me and offer a next day service on 35mm. MF? Well, they're happy to develop for me but despite the charge being something like 72p per frame to scan MF to CD I think they're not keen on doing the job so I need to think about a MF scanner.
Bulk film sounds interesting though, particularly if there are sufficient sources in the UK as I just hate the add-on costs when HM Revenue and Customs add their 20% to the value of imported goods. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
I came across this bulk loader if you're interested
Click here to see on Ebay _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
frystylephoto.biz
Arista EDU Ultra B&W 100 iso 33 USD
35mm x 100 ft. Model# 190110
~20 roll 24 frames lest than 2 USD /roll
I bought from them short term roll for 23 USD ~ 1 USD / roll _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
18 rolls of 36 in 100'
Actually, this can be 17 of 36 and one shorter if not careful in rolling !
Its always good to check Freestyle for sales, if its OK for you to buy from the US.
Also these guys -
http://www.frugalphotographer.com/index.htm
http://www.ecamerafilms.com/Buy_Camera_Film_s/7.htm _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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David wrote:
I roll my own film exclusively for B&W. For Tmax 400 24 exposures at the stores, it's $7.39 in my area (30 cents per exposure.) For 100 feet of TMax, I paid $ 39. At 18 rolls of 36 per 100 feet, that's $2.19 per roll (6 center per exposure.) To go even cheaper, Ultrafine (rebranded Foma) is $21 per 100 feet for 100 ISO and $24 for 400 ISO. That's as low as $1.17 per roll (3 center per exposure.) Both options are actually cheaper than buying expired film off eBay.
You do have some start-up costs. A decent winder will be about $15 or $20. I have two, a bakelite without a clicker that cost $7 and a Western with a clicker that cost $7. I lucked out on those finds. You'll also need a number of reusable canisters. Those can be as little as $1 each for the plastic or about $2 for the metal. The metal are worth it. You'll also need to be able to develop your film at home as modern processing labs often use machine developing which destroys the canisters in the process. So a few good stainless steel developing tanks and reels can be about $15 per set. I lucked out and got all mine for $1.93 per set on Craig's List. CL is a great place for finding old darkroom gear that people don't use and just want to unload.
You'll also need chemicals, which you can buy from Amazon for as little as $6 per gallon of chemical. On eBay one can sometimes find them cheaper, but not meaningfully so. And with Amazon you'll typically buy from Adorama, which means the product will be reliable and the shipping pretty quick.
Minor costs would be a drying rope and clothes pins. I have to wreath hangers on tea-saucer-sized suctions cups on each end of my bath tub. When I'm drying negatives, I strong a rope between the hooks, hand the negative strips, turn on the fan, and close the door (noisy fan.) All told, I got my reloading set up for about $100, maybe a bit less. I have 42 reusable cassettes, which were the largest expense. That said, in that time I've also gone through about 35 rolls of B&W. The cost of the film was about $60. However, developing 35 rolls would cost $739 per roll to purchase and $2.20 to develop (no prints or scanning.) So that's about $350. I'd made my initial investment back within three weeks through developing cost savings. However, it did take me three months to get all the gear since I had set a strict budget and had to wait for good prices. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Where do you get 100' rolls so cheap ? _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Hey, Luis,
I use eBay for MOST of my bulk buying. I got the Ilford 50 100' direct from Adorama (or KEH, I forget which) for $48 ($55 including shipping). The TMAX was a seller oops and they listed it BIN instead of an auction, and I happened to sign on about 10 minutes after the auction began. Here are links to the Ultrafine I use. The price has gone up since my last purchase, so 400 ISO is $28 plus shipping and 100 ISO is $24. Shipping in California (it comes from LA) is almost negligible. In my previous calculations, I admit I neglected to include shipping in my figures, so they're a few cents per frame low.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ultrafine-Xtreme-400-B-W-35mm-x-100-Ft-film-/180755693566?pt=US_Camera_Film&hash=item2a15e0fffe#ht_2964wt_1273
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ultrafine-Xtreme-100-B-W-35mm-x-100-Foot-Black-and-White-Film-/310358843376?pt=US_Camera_Film&hash=item4842d41ff0#ht_3000wt_1273
Those are pretty constant items and Ultrafine Online seems to always have these two bulk films for sale at pretty reasonable prices. This is, I am told, rebranded Foma. So it may not be a good option for those who dislike Foma. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:15 am Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
Its always good to check Freestyle for sales, if its OK for you to buy from the US.
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Ah, you see my problem. I'm very happy shopping in a global market place, especially if prices are lower in sunnier climes than my own. Unfortunately my Government loves to charge me 20% import vat on my purchases so, for example, the Mamiya 7 lens I have just bought in from Japan for under £400 cost me an additional £130
I'm happy to pay for my possessions, I just hate having to pay for the privilege of buying them. Just fancy going into a restaurant and being told that in addition to the advertised menu prices, you had to pay to pay the waiter 20% just to get him to put the food down in front of you . _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
David wrote: |
You'll also need to be able to develop your film at home as modern processing labs often use machine developing which destroys the canisters in the process. . |
That's such useful information as I have nil, nada, zero interest in developing my own film. I haven't got the time - and my wife agrees with me - and I don't have sufficient interest.
Guess I'll keep paying the local shop to do it for me. Gives me more time to take photos, I'm sorry I mean spend more time with my wife. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
tikkathree wrote: |
Unfortunately my Government loves to charge me 20% import vat on my purchases so, for example, the Mamiya 7 lens I have just bought in from Japan for under £400 cost me an additional £130
I'm happy to pay for my possessions, I just hate having to pay for the privilege of buying them. Just fancy going into a restaurant and being told that in addition to the advertised menu prices, you had to pay to pay the waiter 20% just to get him to put the food down in front of you . |
That's a pretty mean point of view. I bet you'd also moan if you had to put your hand in your pocket to pay for an ambulance or a fire engine or anything else you currently get free from the state.
Try looking at it the other way around. The correct price for the lens is £530, not £400. Just because you don't live in Japan and you didn't have to pay the Japanese equivalent of VAT, it shouldn't mean you don't have to pay tax here either. If someone in Japan had bought it he would equally have had to pay the tax there. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
That IS cheaper than Freestyle !
Thanks ! _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
tikkathree wrote: |
Unfortunately my Government loves to charge me 20% import vat on my purchases so, for example, the Mamiya 7 lens I have just bought in from Japan for under £400 cost me an additional £130
I'm happy to pay for my possessions, I just hate having to pay for the privilege of buying them. Just fancy going into a restaurant and being told that in addition to the advertised menu prices, you had to pay to pay the waiter 20% just to get him to put the food down in front of you . |
That's a pretty mean point of view. |
Well I don't claim to be perfect. Come to think about it I've never been accused of being "pretty mean" before.
peterqd wrote: |
I bet you'd also moan if you had to put your hand in your pocket to pay for an ambulance or a fire engine or anything else you currently get free from the state. |
Oh being pretty mean I just love to moan. I don't really understand your argument as I pay plenty of taxes for those things the UK government provides through central funding and also at point of use for those things which the government used to provide but now charges for, such as prescription medication.
peterqd wrote: |
Try looking at it the other way around. The correct price for the lens is £530, not £400. Just because you don't live in Japan and you didn't have to pay the Japanese equivalent of VAT, it shouldn't mean you don't have to pay tax here either. If someone in Japan had bought it he would equally have had to pay the tax there. |
Ah, now I've got it. VAT on imported second hand items is just a levy on consumer spending. Processing an import only involves the investment of State resources because the State decides to stick its hand in. You seem to have accepted more readily than do I the underlining philosophy of "if it changes hands it should be a source of revenue for the government". You're probably right but I'll have to look again at what's going on over at EBay and all of those non-taxed person to person transactions. _________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Forget it. I'm just completely fed up of people like you moaning about the state the country is in and then moaning about doing your bit to help improve it. It's Christmas and you're sounding like Scrooge himself! Cheer up for heaven's sake and be thankful you're fortunate enough to afford expensive lenses! _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 755 Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
Forget it. I'm just completely fed up of people like you moaning about the state the country is in and then moaning about doing your bit to help improve it. It's Christmas and you're sounding like Scrooge himself! Cheer up for heaven's sake and be thankful you're fortunate enough to afford expensive lenses! |
_________________ I used to think digital was fun but then I discovered film, then I found old lenses and then, eventually I found rangefinders.
EOS 5DII, loadsalenses
Canon G9 IR conv,
MF: TLR, 645 and folders
35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10959 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Diving here _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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