View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: Aires 35 IIIL - It wants to look like a Leica M3 |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
These are rather common in fact, and can be had relatively cheaply if there are no claims that they are functional !
With full "combat gear", half-case borrowed from a (later) Aires Viscount and a 43mm vented hood -
The lens is a 4.5cm f/1.9 Aires Coral (6 element) in a Seikosha leaf shutter, 1-500 +B
I had to remove the front sections of the lens assembly and open the shutter to properly clean it, particularly to remove old oil on the leaves. This is apparently a very common problem with these, and it can be difficult to deal with. Then I had to unstick the rangefinder, and of course recalibrate it, with the help of a homemade groundglass. I also had to drill and tap for two replacement screws on the baseplate that a previous owner had broken off -
The Aires camera company was an interesting Japanese manufacturer of the 1950's-early 1960's that won something of a reputation for quality, and in particular for good looking design. I think it was all about making their cameras look as much like Leicas as they could ! They disappeared in the early 1960's after they went broke trying to sell a leaf-shutter SLR - that was at the time an irresistible but impractical holy grail that failed repeatedly and killed bigger companies than Aires.
I am mainly going to repeat what this gentleman - Louis Meluso - has posted as far as background on these cameras -
http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00TLFY
Mine isn't a model III of 1956, its a IIIL from maybe 1957-58. The difference is that the III has normal independent aperture and shutter rings; on the IIIL they are coupled - once you set the aperture to a shutter speed they both turn together to maintain the same exposure. Unfortunately on the IIIL this system is complicated in that the shutter speed indicator is NOT the same as the aperture indicator - which is the usual top centerline mark - but there is also a moving speed indicator that can be moved by the aperture ring. To say the least this is not an intuitive system. This takes some practice to get used to. You have to turn the aperture ring to set the speed mark for the shutter, and THEN turn it to the aperture mark. Still, not as bad as the Contaflex EV system, but its approaching it !
Most of this style of Aires I have seen are the IIIL model, which seems to have been the best seller of the line in the late 1950's. The III and IIIc, both of which have the same lens and shutter, are relatively uncommon, in the US anyway. The top of the line was the Model V, which is an awesome camera - I refer you again to the redoubtable Mr. Meluso -
http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00VaLe
That thing had a coupled meter, interchangeable lenses on its leaf shutter, including, not mentioned in the post above, a seven-element f/1.5 Coral - I have actually seen one on ebay, here's another -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/christophersladder/5619897383/
Other than the Yashica 1C's thats the best available light film camera I can think of, and its much more handsome than the Yashica, and I'm betting its quieter too. Leaf shutters are a considerable advantage at handholding at slow speeds vs focal plane shutters. Sorry Leica ! I'm also betting its a more reliable camera than the Kodak Retina IIIS, which had the same idea, and that one didn't have an f/1.5 lens.
The more common, and also very handsome Aires Viscount is very similar to the III, even internally, but with automatic parallax adjustment, an improved rangefinder, and a less eccentric shutter control. But it doesn't look like a Leica !
As for reliability - these are, sadly, inclined to be a problem. I have picked up four IIIL's. Of the four, all were not functional (which I expected). They all had shutter or aperture problems or both. All had dim rangefinder spots, which improved with cleaning but is still rather dim. On the ones I have working I have placed pieces of mylar window film to slightly dim the viewfinder to make the projected spot (tinted red on Aires, interestingly) stand out more. So far I have fixed two. Of the other two one had broken studs on the aperture blades from someone trying to force a stuck aperture and the other seems to have broken shutter blades. I may be able to make a "frankenstein" from them. So, buyer beware.
As for what I think of its usability - The finder does not adjust for parallax, so thats a minor issue. The rangefinder spot, as I mentioned above, is fairly dim, but way too many of these old rangefinders have the same problem. That one I can live with. The speed/aperture setting takes some getting used to. The shutter is very very very quiet. This may be the quietest shutter I have ever (not) heard. Its so good (or bad) that I'm not always sure when I've pressed the shutter release. Otherwise its a very solidly made (all brass), very simple very basic camera. The ergonomics are good and its easy to hold steady while focusing. The lens has a good reputation, and I didn't see any reason to doubt it. I got good results, but not magically better than any other rangefinder I have been trying out these days.
What I did get was a lot of people stopping me on the street asking whether it was a Leica. The Aires marketing department is still effective, 55 years later !
All shot on Arista Premium 100. No filter. Metering was by guess or my trusty old plastic Selenium Sekonic, where there was light enough for it to work !
_________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3438 Location: Netherlands
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Minolfan wrote:
Great that you are capable to get these old cameras working again!
I like these machines, but I don't have one (yet); they are less common here. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 2530 Location: Thach Alabama
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Big Dawg wrote:
Minolfan wrote: |
Great that you are capable to get these old cameras working again!
I like these machines, but I don't have one (yet); they are less common here. |
I started to bid on one yesterday but the bids were at $50+. A little above my self set limit. Looks like a well built good shooter. I like the Aires Viscount so well I'd like others of the same brand.
_________________ Big Dawg |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Attila wrote:
Congrats for your new cam! Handsome! Special thanks for long post it was joy to read. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nesster wrote:
Aires rangefinder - 1958 by Nesster, on Flickr
Aires "35 III" 1956 by Nesster, on Flickr _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
The Viscount is certainly a better camera, easier to use and better developed.
You can find a IIIL for under $20 if you look hard for a fixer-upper. I got one lot of 2 for 9.95 ! Of course, I have only fixed one of them.
Thanks Nesster ! Interesting ads from those days. Its obvious that they were going for the value-conscious market.
$ 99.95 list price was not much more than an Argus C4, and this is a considerably superior camera. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 5038 Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Aires 35 IIIL - It wants to look like a Leica M3 |
|
|
kansalliskala wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
As for reliability - these are, sadly, inclined to be a problem. I have picked up four IIIL's. Of the four, all were not functional (which I expected). They all had shutter or aperture problems or both. |
I can't even theoretically understand how one combines leaf shutter and Contax-Nikon style focusing. Let alone implements it mechanically.
Really! How does it work? What sort of cocking and release system is there?
edit: only way I would do it with some pushing and pulling rings that rotate with the mount? _________________ MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Attila wrote:
Jussi, your flyers are amazing! Seems you have one from each cameras thank you for sharing them here! _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
The rangefinder system is fundamentally the same in all these leaf shutter cameras as in the Leica/Contax/Nikon focal plane shutter types. Note that ALL the hundreds of models of leaf-shutter rangefinders have solved this problem, there have been far more leaf-shutter rangefinder camera types than focal plane shutter rangefinders.
The helical in the leaf shutter models moves the whole lens&shutter assembly instead of just the lens. The interface with the rangefinder mechanism varies in its details, but is fundamentally the same - there is a probe or cylindrical section that is rigidly mounted on the lens/shutter assembly that moves a lever on the rangefinder, not really different than a Leica.
As for shutter cocking, a similar case. There are several mechanical methods to convert the rotation of the cocking lever 180 degrees to rotate a variety of gears and levers that cock the shutter. Most use a rack&pinion arrangement - the cocking lever rotates a gear that moves a rack on a bar, at 90 degrees another rack on the same bar rotates another gear attached to a shaft that turns a cocking gear or lever on the shutter. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 5038 Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
|
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
kansalliskala wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
As for shutter cocking, a similar case. There are several mechanical methods to convert the rotation of the cocking lever 180 degrees to rotate a variety of gears and levers that cock the shutter. Most use a rack&pinion arrangement - the cocking lever rotates a gear that moves a rack on a bar, at 90 degrees another rack on the same bar rotates another gear attached to a shaft that turns a cocking gear or lever on the shutter. |
That didn't sound very easy to engineer? It would be simple if you always cocked the shutter at infinity. So there has to be some pin or friction method to keep the helicoid in place instead of rotating?
I'd love to see some schematics of the mechanism. Can you post a picture of the mount open and lens rear side?
edit:
ok, found out that it is a fixed-lens rangefinder.
But the focusing scale looks exactly like a Contax / Nikon RF mount _________________ MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
|
Back to top |
|
|
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
Yes, these rangefinder cameras are mostly fixed-lens types.
But there are a few interchangeable lens rangefinders with leaf shutters also.
The Aires 35 V, Argus C3 and C 44, some Braun Paxettes and the Kodak Retina IIIS (and some others I am sure I am forgetting) had fully interchangeable lenses that sat in front of a leaf shutter, not inside it. This is similar to most leaf shutter SLR's, but of course it is much simpler to do on a rangefinder.
Some others just had replaceable front elements such as the Kodak Retina IIC and Zeiss Contina III. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 5038 Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
|
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
kansalliskala wrote:
Thank you for interesting info!
Those Retina IIIS and Aires 35V look like camera-repair mightmare. Yet I immediately want one. _________________ MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
AF: Canon, Tokina, Sigma Video: JVC GZ-MG275E |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|