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Leica R 50mm f1.4 E60 vs Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Leica R 50mm f1.4 E60 vs Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 Reply with quote
who wins?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't have either, nor have I ever used them . . . but I would guess that both will be excellent lenses. No doubt each will have a different mixture of qualities, so the real question will, as ever, be 'Which appeals more to the individual user?'


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For me, the Leitz wins. Compared both and the important difference for me was, that wide open the Summilux was sharper towards the edges.
And has less CA
Klaus


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Which 'Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50' ?

Contax (AE or MM) or Zeiss Zx?

I found the wide open close distance performance of the Leica R 50/1.4 E60 to be a little dissapointing compared to the Contax 50/1.4 (MM) which I find is very sharp wide open at close range. I kept thinking I was doing some thing wrong with the E60, possibly mis-focusing, but it wasn't me. The lens is much sharper at mid distances and longer, but I didn't expect it to underperfom at close range, approx 1-2m.

When I compared the E60 to a Leica R Cron E55 I found too little difference to justify the upgrade so I didn't, and kept the Cron E55. In the scheme of things I use my Contax 50/1.4 (MM) way more than the Cron and also find the close range wide open performance (of the Contax 50/1.4 (MM)) to be excellent. I really do like the Contax 50/1.4 (MM) and admit I've been thinking of selling the Cron E55 as I simply don't use it any more.

I've never directly compared the Contax 50/1.4 (MM) with the Leica R 50/1.4 E60 and although I'm sure there are differences I sincerely wonder if it is worth the price difference.

JJ


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guess it was MM.
I had the Cron, too, but comparing with the Summilux at f2 made me sell my Cron.
So everyone makes different experiences! Wink

Klaus


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
am i wrong or is the leica like a $2000 usd cost lens, compared to a $350usd cost lens? if so, i certainly hope the leica's better! for a reasonably priced lens though, i dont think one can do better than any in the planar T series.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm wrong, wrong, wrong!
I have the former version with 55mm filter mount.
Anyway, it is - for me - better.

Klaus


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
marco cavina says that Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 aej is better than mmj (because he bought a mmj and is not better than aej version than he bought after)...and he said than i have a good copy
but on italian forum...some users say than summilux-r e60 has more contrast and sharpness than planar
i am happy with it... but 3000 euro for a manual focus lens ... imho is to high !!!!!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost a perfect question for me Smile
I've just made some test shots to compare Contax Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss HFT 50/1.4 and Leica Summilux-R 50/1.4 ... unfortunately it's the first version summilux, not the E60 Smile

The bokeh pattern of the three are completely the same! I tried different background and still the same. For the color, Leica looks warmer where Contax is colder. Contax is more resistant to flare than the other. Leica is more resistant to CA that the other. Hope I have time to post the comparison shots. But, once again, too bad it's not the E60. I still can not justify it's price to buy it Smile

By the way, I've seen a comparison shots between Leica first version, second version (E55?) and E60 in a website (I forgot not to bookmark it, but I'll find it), and the E60 bokeh is much smoother than the previous two.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
again, unless i'm missing something, at $2000 vs $350, if there is even room for debate on which is best, i'm saving $1700 and putting it towards 3-4 more planar T lenses! at that price disparity the leica needs to absolutely blow the planar out of the water. i honestly dont understand this fascination with leica that would cause people to spend exhorbitant amounts of money for 'maybe' marginally better performance than other low cost options.

i have a summarit 50/1.4 that cost more than the planar T, but performs about the same as a $100 yashica ml 50/1.4!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don´t know where you found the price of 2000 $ for a R 1.4/50 E60.
You can get it here at German E*ay for between 600 to 700 € which is about 1000 $ - so the half of the amount above. And the version with E55 you will get for approx. 400 €.

May be you mean a 1.4/50 for Leica M. This one is indeed more expensive.

Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hey rolf

i ran an ebay search for 'leica r e60' and got these, the least expensive of which is almost $3000!:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-R-1-1-4-50-mm-Summilux-R-E60-ROM-last-version-/110718820853?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item19c75b21f5#ht_2640wt_1002

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-R-Summilux-1-4-50-3820840-ROM-E60-/270806670394?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Analogkameras&hash=item3f0d55dc3a#ht_3747wt_822

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Summilux-R-1-4-50mm-E60-wie-Neu-/270811242800?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item3f0d9ba130#ht_500wt_922

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Leica-Summilux-R-50mm-f-1-4-ROM-E60-Germany-/190571021311?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2c5eeb03ff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-R-Summilux-1-4-50-3820840-ROM-E60-/160577253790?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item256326719e#ht_3330wt_970

and e55 all over $1500, most $2500:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Summilux-R-50mm-f-1-4-lens-E55-ROM-Late-LN-Mint-/150652967170?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item23139dd902#ht_992wt_689

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Summilux-R-50-1-4-50mm-f-1-4-E55-Germany-/190561942394?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2c5e607b7a#ht_7203wt_1034

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Summilux-R-50mm-f-1-4-E55-ROM-Mint-Bonus-/130571015404?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item1e66a394ec#ht_3162wt_1156

am i doing something wrong?
tony


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Click here to see on Ebay.de
Click here to see on Ebay.de
Click here to see on Ebay.de

Ok Tony, your samples - these are dealers from Czech and HK, they have sometimes prices ideas beside good and bad. But I don´t think that these are "market prices".

Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i think there are not e60
in one... there is a B&W 55E

the summilux-r e60 has 8 elements ... 1 asph
like the planar 1.2/55


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
thanks rolf. those were the only ones available on u.s. ebay.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rolf wrote:
Click here to see on Ebay.de
Click here to see on Ebay.de
Click here to see on Ebay.de

Ok Tony, your samples - these are dealers from Czech and HK, they have sometimes prices ideas beside good and bad. But I don´t think that these are "market prices".

Wink

Unfortunately, those are 1st 7/6 optical design from late sixties in redesigned body with E55 fitlter thread.
The E60 8/7 version was made from 1997 SN: 37xxxx and above. It is branded Leica only. No Leitz or Leitz Weltzar.

Interesting MTF graphs comparison of fast 50s from Erwin Puts.
http://www.imx.nl/photo/technique/technique/hslenses.html

Last edited by BRunner on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My mistake. I checked only the product images and not the serial numbers. You have complete right - last version started in 1997/1998.

Sorry for the wrong infos.

Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BRunner wrote:
Interesting MTF graphs comparison of fast 50s from Erwin Puts.


where do you find this donkey that read lp/mm in MTF Laughing

Puts wrote:
the marketing department of Zeiss claimed recently that this lens is the resolution champion with a resolution of 400 lp/mm. In fact the MTF analysis gives a maximum resolution of about 160 lp/mm, where the contrast goes to zero. This kind of promotion does the lens a disservice


Puts have never read the original article
Zeiss wrote:
The new Planar T* 1,4/50 ZF went even further: It reached 320 lp/mm in the aperture range from f/5.6 to f/2.8, and 250 lp/mm at f/2.
The resolution test chart was placed in the center of the frame, and the negatives were inspected directly on a research microscope. No other process involving projection (through even the best enlarging lens) or digitizing (in today’s best currently available scanners) is capable of transferring such high resolution values


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zeiss 50mm F1.4 Planar ZE vs. Leica 50mm F1.4 Summilux-M ASPH wide open bokeh and sharpness from www.pebbleplace.com

The images are self explanatory. Planar was introduced in early 70's and it is great lens, but is already overtaken by never designs. Summilux-M ASPH was introduced in 2004. According MTF graphs, 8 element Summilux-R will perform somewhere between these two lenses.

Planar


Summilux ASPH


Planar


Summilux ASPH


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
Puts have never read the original article
Zeiss wrote:
The new Planar T* 1,4/50 ZF went even further: It reached 320 lp/mm in the aperture range from f/5.6 to f/2.8, and 250 lp/mm at f/2.
The resolution test chart was placed in the center of the frame, and the negatives were inspected directly on a research microscope. No other process involving projection (through even the best enlarging lens) or digitizing (in today’s best currently available scanners) is capable of transferring such high resolution values

The important question is, at which contrast value was 250 lp/mm at f/2 resolved? For practical purposes, you need at least 60%. And at this value - according Zeiss MTF graphs - Planar resolves exactly 40lp/mm at f4 in center...
Don't get me wrong, I do like all my Planars....as I do like my Elmarits and Summicrons Mr. Green


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
metallaro1980 wrote:
marco cavina says that Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 aej is better than mmj (because he bought a mmj and is not better than aej version than he bought after)...and he said than i have a good copy
...


I have both the AE and MM and apart from the aperture blades I don't think there is any difference at all.

JJ


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nixland wrote:
...By the way, I've seen a comparison shots between Leica first version, second version (E55?) and E60 in a website (I forgot not to bookmark it, but I'll find it), and the E60 bokeh is much smoother than the previous two.


I've only seen one comparison between the E55 and the E60 and the E55 had a softer Bokeh. I felt it was enough of a difference to actually make the E55 a better choice than the E60.

JJ


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rolf wrote:
I don´t know where you found the price of 2000 $ for a R 1.4/50 E60.
You can get it here at German E*ay for between 600 to 700 € which is about 1000 $ - so the half of the amount above. And the version with E55 you will get for approx. 400 €.

May be you mean a 1.4/50 for Leica M. This one is indeed more expensive.

Wink


The last E60 I saw sell on Ebay (a few months ago, and I don't follow them so there will certainly have been more recent ones) sold for AUD$2500. This was an Australian lens, not a new old stock BIN. People bid that much for it and it sold.

JJ


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BRunner wrote:
Zeiss 50mm F1.4 Planar ZE vs. Leica 50mm F1.4 Summilux-M ASPH wide open bokeh and sharpness from www.pebbleplace.com

The images are self explanatory. Planar was introduced in early 70's and it is great lens, but is already overtaken by never designs. Summilux-M ASPH was introduced in 2004. According MTF graphs, 8 element Summilux-R will perform somewhere between these two lenses...


How is it relevant to compare M images? The Summilux-M ASPH is a completely different lens and from the samples I've seen (I've never used it) seems to set the standard for all other 50's.

JJ


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://cgi.ebay.it/RARE-Leica-Summilux-R-50mm-f-1-4-ROM-E60-Germany-/190571021311?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2c5eeb03ff#ht_8176wt_1034

http://cgi.ebay.it/Leica-Summilux-R-1-4-50mm-E60-wie-Neu-/270811242800?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item3f0d9ba130#ht_500wt_997

http://cgi.ebay.it/Leica-R-1-1-4-50-mm-Summilux-R-E60-ROM-last-version-/110718820829?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item19c75b21dd#ht_2620wt_1002

http://cgi.ebay.it/Leica-R-1-1-4-50-mm-Summilux-R-E60-ROM-last-version-/110718820853?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item19c75b21f5#ht_2582wt_1002

no autofocus...
the game isn't worth the candle
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