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Nikon to stop making SLR cameras
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:41 pm    Post subject: Nikon to stop making SLR cameras Reply with quote
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Nikon-to-stop-making-SLR-cameras-and-focus-on-mirrorless-models

Quote:
Rival Canon also plans to follow Nikon and stop producing SLRs within a few years.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Inevitable really.

The few advantages DSLRs have over MILCs have been rapidly disappearing.

In terms of stability of the optical path length to the AF sensor, a flapping (flippin' Wink ) pair of mirrors are about as welcome as a hole in the head from an engineering perspective...


PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It was inevitable. But the phrase 'within a few years' doesn't say much. I read into that that they're carrying on with DSLRs but will probably just keep up with the higher end models.

Mirrorless technology is such that entry level cameras can be made cheaply.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has the resolution of mirrorless screens reached the point where they can duplicate or exceed the image quality produced by well-made glass pentaprisms? If so, then I might be onboard to this switch. Else, I'm sticking with glass. And I'm saying this as a Sony mirrorless user. But I'm also saying it because my camera's screen is not as good as glass. But then again, maybe that's just because it's getting kinda old -- it's a NEX 7.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Has the resolution of mirrorless screens reached the point where they can duplicate or exceed the image quality produced by well-made glass pentaprisms? If so, then I might be onboard to this switch. Else, I'm sticking with glass. And I'm saying this as a Sony mirrorless user. But I'm also saying it because my camera's screen is not as good as glass. But then again, maybe that's just because it's getting kinda old -- it's a NEX 7.

There is no image magnification function with a optical viewfinder. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
There is no image magnification function with a optical viewfinder

it is called magnifier angle finder, useful for macro with real time image Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
There is no image magnification function with a optical viewfinder

it is called magnifier angle finder, useful for macro with real time image Twisted Evil

Oh yes. Can it do 10x magnification? Wink


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
There is no image magnification function with a optical viewfinder

it is called magnifier angle finder, useful for macro with real time image Twisted Evil


Equally useful for mirrorless cameras, those angle finders. Not all mirrorless camera LCD panels have a double hinge; on the SONY A7 cameras taking a low-level shot in portrait format is a pain without an angle finder like that.

Here the remnants of Minolta DNA left behind in the SONY cameras is evident; the Minolta later (not the earliest) angle finders for their SLR cameras fit straight onto the SONY A7 cameras (as well as the Minolta viewfinder magnifiers, and their diopter adjustment lenses).


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Has the resolution of mirrorless screens reached the point where they can duplicate or exceed the image quality produced by well-made glass pentaprisms? If so, then I might be onboard to this switch. Else, I'm sticking with glass. And I'm saying this as a Sony mirrorless user. But I'm also saying it because my camera's screen is not as good as glass. But then again, maybe that's just because it's getting kinda old -- it's a NEX 7.


I bet mirrorless screens will soon exceed the resolution of optical viewfinders; the limiting factor in SLR optical viewfinder resolution isn't the glass, it is the surface structure of the matte focus screen. For practical purposes I think my current SONY A7s and SONY A7RII screens are already close enough to the Minolta accute-matte focus screens I was used to before (which were not extremely high resolution but very bright screens in their days.)

The only thing I really miss from the (classic) SLR viewfinders are the micro-prism + wedge focusing aids (which may or may not be more accurate than the magnifier focusing on my mirrorless cameras depending on the subject, but these old focusing aids are definitely faster to use as they are always there instantly available, no 2-button-presses required to set maximum magnification)

Brightness is my biggest issue; the EVFs and LCD back panels are not anywhere near as bright as the older optical viewfinders Sad
Then again, with the lens stopped down they are brighter than the older optical viewfinders, so it's a bit of give and take here...


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
..., but these old focusing aids are definitely faster to use as they are always there instantly available, no 2-button-presses required to set maximum magnification)


Smile old focusing aid slower to "turn off" than button-presses.

RokkorDoctor wrote:
...with the lens stopped down they are brighter than the older optical viewfinders...


Yes indeed!


EVF shut off is longer after shutter press than with optical viewfinder.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
..., but these old focusing aids are definitely faster to use as they are always there instantly available, no 2-button-presses required to set maximum magnification)


Smile old focusing aid slower to "turn off" than button-presses.


True; they can get in the way with very slow lenses where the micro-prisms/wedge black out.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, inevitable. But no, not immediately.

All of them(Canon, Nikon, Sony and others) had continued to manufacture components
for their DSLR cameras until recently. There's no way they'll all scrap them and take a loss
on all of that when they've still got parts and capabilities to continue manufacturing until
parts and capability runs out, especially while the products are still solid performers,
and they all know they can still profit or simply break even to minimize loss while continuing
to provide the market with high-quality offerings.

I've read that Canon intends to do this with ES and EF-S lenses, probably until the parts
inventory is gone, simply because they can and still generate income due to the large numbers
of popular lenses in those series, and many people are still using those cameras. Nikon has
likely adopted a similar strategy, while SONY would be silly not to take the same approach.
Seriously: How many 1D-series/5D-series, Nikon top-of-the-line and SONY alpha-series are still in use
by professionals and passionate enthusiasts? I'd wager it's in the millions.
Abandon them all? Right now? That'd be an incredibly stupid move of them, particularly if they have
any capacity to continue production of those cameras and lenses before they run out of the means to do so.

The DSLRs will continue to be made alongside the newer mirrorless models, until the component inventories
are all used up. Only then, will the full industry interest be on the mirrorless market.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
SkedAddled wrote:
Yes, inevitable. But no, not immediately.

All of them(Canon, Nikon, Sony and others) had continued to manufacture components
for their DSLR cameras until recently. There's no way they'll all scrap them and take a loss
on all of that when they've still got parts and capabilities to continue manufacturing until
parts and capability runs out, especially while the products are still solid performers,
and they all know they can still profit or simply break even to minimize loss while continuing
to provide the market with high-quality offerings.

I've read that Canon intends to do this with ES and EF-S lenses, probably until the parts
inventory is gone, simply because they can and still generate income due to the large numbers
of popular lenses in those series, and many people are still using those cameras. Nikon has
likely adopted a similar strategy, while SONY would be silly not to take the same approach.
Seriously: How many 1D-series/5D-series, Nikon top-of-the-line and SONY alpha-series are still in use
by professionals and passionate enthusiasts? I'd wager it's in the millions.
Abandon them all? Right now? That'd be an incredibly stupid move of them, particularly if they have
any capacity to continue production of those cameras and lenses before they run out of the means to do so.

The DSLRs will continue to be made alongside the newer mirrorless models, until the component inventories
are all used up. Only then, will the full industry interest be on the mirrorless market.


I have a different take on it;

They can stop production of the cameras and lenses pretty quickly. The existing inventory of parts will simply be re-designated from their production facilities to their service facilities as spare parts, which for some time to come will become a fairly lucrative business. The EU for starters is very soon to adopt legislation that will enforce manufacturers to make spare parts available to third parties outside of their own service channels for some minimum time after production has stopped. This news is likely simply a flag to the commercial world that Nikon is starting this process now and DSLR production will stop fairly soon with current inventory of parts being diverted to their service business. I take this as a sign that Nikon spare parts for their DSLRs will see a price-hike fairly imminently.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:

Brightness is my biggest issue; the EVFs and LCD back panels are not anywhere near as bright as the older optical viewfinders Sad


Yes, optical viewfinders are much brighter than EVF outdoors in bright sunlight. In tropical sun, on the beach for example, the LCD panel is almost useless. However, indoors, and especially at night, the EVF is much brighter than the optical viewfinder.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
There is no image magnification function with a optical viewfinder

it is called magnifier angle finder, useful for macro with real time image Twisted Evil


Works only as long as the mirror AND the focusing screen are PERFECTLY adjusted ... plus its magnification is very limited (ususally 2x).

EVF magnification usually is 10x-15x (=100% crop). And since it shows the image recorded by the sensor itself, there's room for errors.

So the EVF is a huge advantage when testing / comparing lenses, and for indoor/available light photography (and often when checking an image taken, especially in bright daylight). On the other hand even the newest EVF suck in broad daylight (snow!!), and they kind of disconnect me from the scenery.

S


PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

EVF magnification usually is 10x-15x (=100% crop). And since it shows the image recorded by the sensor itself, there's room for errors.
S


I think you meant to say there's no room for errors... Wink

But THAT is indeed the biggest plus I have personally experienced from mirrorless cameras (or live view in general); with large aperture/shallow DOF shots the issue of film flatness & slightly unpredictable position of the film plane is a problem of the past. Lenses with high SA still pose a focusing issue though if you focus wide-open but stop down for the shot...
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