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Schneider Componar 135/4.5 (red delta)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Schneider Componar 135/4.5 (red delta) Reply with quote
So I just received my first of this subspecies, not counting a Schneider Durst Componar 75/4.5. This is a fairly heavy beast (290g), I assume for MF cameras. More iris blades than I can easily count, maybe around 15. The inset front thread seems to be around 40mm. No mounting thread -- a 62mm-diameter round metal flange with four screw holes. I expect I'll have to make a lensboard to fit the Multiscope IIIa bellows I just received. Or has anyone here a more elegant way to mount it on M42 or PK bellows, reversed or not? Will reversing matter, or is this a symmetrical formula? Any information and/or suggestions are welcome.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is an enlarging lens.

In Schneider-speak, Componar, Comparon, and Componon are enlarging lenses. Xenon, Xenar, Xenotar, Symmar, Angulon, Super Angulon are taking lenses. Artar and Claron mean repro lens. Artar is a Goerz (American, I think, not the original German Goerz firm that became part of Zeiss Ikon) trade name that Schneider acquired when they bought Goerz American.

To learn more about some older Schneider lenses, visit http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm


PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
danfromm wrote:
It is an enlarging lens.

In Schneider-speak, Componar, Comparon, and Componon are enlarging lenses. Xenon, Xenar, Xenotar, Symmar, Angulon, Super Angulon are taking lenses. Artar and Claron mean repro lens. Artar is a Goerz (American, I think, not the original German Goerz firm that became part of Zeiss Ikon) trade name that Schneider acquired when they bought Goerz American.

To learn more about some older Schneider lenses, visit http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm

Thanks! This 135/4.5 seems to be for enlarging 9x12cm negatives. The specifications I found were incomplete but the front thread seems to be 43mm -- behind a raised lip, but I was able to thread in a 43mm ring.. Fortunately I have step-rings and mount-reversal adapters that let me mount it on bellows without having to cut or fabricate anything. I may still make a lensboard for it. Now, to make a hood and see how it performs!

Is there a hierarchy of quality among Componar, Comparon, and Componon?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Is there a hierarchy of quality among Componar, Comparon, and Componon?


Componar = triplet type (except the late Componar-S)

Comparon = tessar type

Componon = plasmat type

Interestingly, Schneider recommends Comparons over Componons for 2x - 6x enlargements (taking from 1:2 to 1:6). Componons are recommended for enlarging > 6x (taking < 1:6).

I have 105/5.6 and 150/5.6 Comparons that I've tried for closeup work on 2x3. There are better lenses for that application, but my two little Comparons are quite acceptable. One of their advantages is that they're in #0 shutters so are very easily reversed for work from 2:1 to 6:1. The 150/5.6 Comparon was on the market by 1963, so is not the same generation as late 150/5.6 and 210/6.1 Xenars, which are supposed to be among the best tessar types ever.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is an enlarging lens. What is your question? It isn't clear what you are asking.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
FluffPuppy wrote:
This is an enlarging lens. What is your question? It isn't clear what you are asking.

My questions were, What is an elegant (non-messy) way to mount this on a camera? and, Is the formula symmetrical? Does reversing matter?
I've found that I *can* mount it reversed with adapters I possess. But I may also want to make a lenboard mount for it.
And danfromm says that it's a triplet, so reversing will make some difference.
My questions are thus answered, and I've learned a bit more about Schneider. Thanks!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RioRico wrote:
FluffPuppy wrote:
This is an enlarging lens. What is your question? It isn't clear what you are asking.

My questions were, What is an elegant (non-messy) way to mount this on a camera? and, Is the formula symmetrical? Does reversing matter?
I've found that I *can* mount it reversed with adapters I possess. But I may also want to make a lenboard mount for it.
And danfromm says that it's a triplet, so reversing will make some difference.
My questions are thus answered, and I've learned a bit more about Schneider. Thanks!


You need to mount it to a bellows. I would check with a dealer who handles such items. I'm sure that going with a macro lens would be easier. Most of the major mfrs make or have made bellows and macro lenses for them.

Of course you need to keep in mind that in an enlarging lens the design is for the light to go in the opposite direction. It does make a difference.

Last edited by FluffPuppy on Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is how I mount mine -a Componon of the same focal length

Cheers


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
FluffPuppy wrote:
You need to mount it to a bellows. I would check with a dealer who handles such items. I'm sure that going with a macro lens would be easier. Most of the major mfrs make or have made bellows and macro lenses for them.

Of course you need to keep in mind that in an enlarging lens the design is for the light to go in the opposite direction. It does make a difference.

Thanks. I have several bellows and numerous enlarging lenses. The specifics of this lens make it a little tricky. And some ELs used for taking seem to work better when reversed, but with symmetrical lenses, that doesn't matter.

Kathmandu wrote:
Here is how I mount mine -a Componon of the same focal length

Thanks. The construction of this lens is a bit different than yours, also different than my other ELs, with a wide circular plate on the back and and an inset front thread. No, I see no way to remove that circular plate. I will need to make a lensboard to use it facing-forward on my Multiscope bellows. I've used a combination of 43-52mm step-ring and a 52mm-PK mount-reversal adapter to reverse-mount it on PK bellows. So far, so good!


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been wondering about that wide circular plate.

Are you sure that the lens isn't screwed into it? I ask because I've come across lenses with flanges that were very hard to unscrew, also lenses screwed into circular enlarger lens boards that were very hard to unscrew. Lenses, both LF taking lenses in barrel and enlarging lenses, with integral mounting plates or flanges are very rare.

Don't agree with your comment re symmetrical lenses. There are perfectly symmetrical lenses, e.g., dialyte type Apo-Nikkors, Apo Saphirs, and somewhat symmetrical lenses, e.g., most plasmat types. The somewhat symmetrical ones made to work at magnifications below 1:1 benefit from being reversed when working above 1:1.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my enthousiasme about ELs for macro I once jumped on an auction for a Meopta Meopar 180mm 4.5. Never thought about how large the enLARGER thing could be. Shocked
Got the hunk of glass and metal and had nothing to handle the 70mm (!) screw fitting and sought for a piece of sewer-pipe or something like that, without succes. Hole of a M42 adapter is too small for the backside of the lens. So it has lived for some time in a drawer.
Yesterday I did it the hard way: glued a Leimin adapter to the backside of the lens.
The adapter is made to use MD-lenses on LTM39 Leica (why should I) or on a Novoflex bellows; I had an extra copy.
Have to test it on bellows yet.
Maybe something like that is an idea for you?


PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry for the late reply; I've been sick. A bit better today.

danfromm wrote:
I've been wondering about that wide circular plate.

Are you sure that the lens isn't screwed into it? I ask because I've come across lenses with flanges that were very hard to unscrew, also lenses screwed into circular enlarger lens boards that were very hard to unscrew. Lenses, both LF taking lenses in barrel and enlarging lenses, with integral mounting plates or flanges are very rare.

Yes I'm sure. The circular plate is integral to the lens body, not screwed on. I don't fancy removing the grub screws in the knurled aperture ring to disassemble the lens, just to remove that. But for now, I can live with my simple reversal setup.

Quote:
Don't agree with your comment re symmetrical lenses. There are perfectly symmetrical lenses, e.g., dialyte type Apo-Nikkors, Apo Saphirs, and somewhat symmetrical lenses, e.g., most plasmat types. The somewhat symmetrical ones made to work at magnifications below 1:1 benefit from being reversed when working above 1:1.

Thanks for that. I'll have to experiment and see with this one. I usually use ELs longer than 80mm for general and moderately close work, not in the macro range.

Minolfan wrote:
In my enthousiasme about ELs for macro I once jumped on an auction for a Meopta Meopar 180mm 4.5. Never thought about how large the enLARGER thing could be. Shocked
Got the hunk of glass and metal and had nothing to handle the 70mm (!) screw fitting and sought for a piece of sewer-pipe or something like that, without succes. Hole of a M42 adapter is too small for the backside of the lens. So it has lived for some time in a drawer.
Yesterday I did it the hard way: glued a Leimin adapter to the backside of the lens.
The adapter is made to use MD-lenses on LTM39 Leica (why should I) or on a Novoflex bellows; I had an extra copy.
Have to test it on bellows yet.
Maybe something like that is an idea for you?

I know that I can just make a lensboard to fit this Componar to the Multiscope bellows. I'll get around to that -- in a few months, when I return from a long journey that will leave this Componar behind. Poor thang...

I have a trick for adapting thick ELs and other non-camera lenses: macro tubes. The cheap Hong Kong PK macro tube sets I buy have screw-together sections with internal diameter ~58mm. If ANY PART of a candidate lens is 58mm or thinner, or can be cut so, I glue-on a tube section, then screw-on the mount section and fit it to my PK bellows. That's how I've adapted a Schneider PC-Cinelux AV 60/2.8 (yeah, PC= perspective control, a shift lens!) and Kodak Ektagraphic FF 100-150/3.5, and the massive Rodenstock XR-Heligon 120/1.8, and a few others.

Unfortunately, my next candidate, a Projection Optics (Rochester NY) 3-inch / 76mm f/1.6 is just a bit too thick and is heavy metal and would take more than my Dremel to chop. That's if I want something more than 20cm fixed focus. Bummer...
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