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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: Mir-1 in unusual Kiev 10 bayonet mount - useless? |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hi folks
An unscrupulous (or possibly illinformed) seller sold me a Mir-1 2.8/37mm lens, supposedly in nikon mount.
It just arrived and I immediately noticed the bayonet is not Nikon, much smaller diameter.
A quick google and it turns out this is the bayonet used on the Kiev 10 and 15 SLRs.
So is this lens useless or is it possible to convert it to M42?
Can't find any info on the Kiev 10 bayonet, such as the register distance, anyoe got any info?
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
IIRC the register is 44 mm. However my link to this info is broken so I can't be sure. Even if you can convert the mount how are you going to control the aperture ?
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hmm, didn't think of that, perhaps I can modify it so it works like a preset?
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Hmm, didn't think of that, perhaps I can modify it so it works like a preset? |
Have you any pic of the lens?
Perhaps to convert it in a manual diafragm can be done.
Rino
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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RioRico
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 1120
Location: California or Guatemala or somewhere
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Mir-1 in unusual Kiev 10 bayonet mount - useless? |
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RioRico wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Can't find any info on the Kiev 10 bayonet, such as the register distance, anyoe got any info? |
My gargling finds one guy who says the FFD is 44mm, another who says it's compatible with Contarex and is 46mm. Unless the lens base is removable, or very narrow, it likely can't be adapted to M42 nor Nikon.
It is possible to jam a narrow-base lens into some adapters. I have adapted an Argus-C3-mount Enna Tele-Sandmar 100/4.5 (FFD= ~35mm) to Pentax PK mount (45.46mm, same as M42) by setting the narrow lens base through a PK body cap, with the Enna's screwmount extending just 1mm past the cap's bayonet flags, thus not fouling the SLR mirror.
The trick is to eyeball the lens: Look through the VF and move the lens in front of the SLR mirror. If you ever see an infinity-sharp image, and the lens isn't too deep within the camera, then the lens can be mounted, possibly. But this depends on the lens base being narrower than the camera mount. If it's too narrow, or if there's no sharp image, then too bad.
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Too many film+digi cams+lenses, oh my -- Pentax K20D, K-1000, M42s, more
The simple truth is this: There are no neutral photographs. --F-Stop Fitzgerald |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
FFD? AFAIK, Select the infinite signal in the lens. Focus the lens on infinite and take the distance between the rear base of the lens and the focal plane. It's the FFD.
Rino
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Useless, target another lens.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
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RioRico
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 1120
Location: California or Guatemala or somewhere
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:13 am Post subject: |
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RioRico wrote:
[content deleted because it was wrong]
_________________
Too many film+digi cams+lenses, oh my -- Pentax K20D, K-1000, M42s, more
The simple truth is this: There are no neutral photographs. --F-Stop Fitzgerald
Last edited by RioRico on Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:35 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
| Useless, target another lens. |
Seems I am cursed with the 35mm focal length...
First purchase was a mint Aritar 3.5/35 very cheap, garbage quality
Then I got a pair of mint 3.5/35s, one Rolmax, one Unistar, both not good, the Unistar garbage
Then I got a Canon FL 2.5/35, trimmed the lens body so it would hit infinity but for some reason, the helicoid now refuses to screw back together so the lens is in pieces.
Last week I got a mint Petri CC Auto 2.8/35, had high hopes for this one as my Petri CC Auto 1.8/55 of the same vintage is awesome. The bayonet came off easy enough but the design is different to the other Petri so it's going to take some machining and tinkering to remount it for EOS, the other Petri took all of 5 mins to convert.
Now this useless Mir 1...
Thank god I have a Meyer Primagon otherwise I'd have 6 useless 35s and nothing in this focal length worth having!
I will take some pics of this Mir lens to show you tomorrow, it is very narrow and the mount is held on with three screws, two of which are actually loose so will be very easy to remove it.
As I have the lens and it is useless, I'm not afraid to start modifying it, I'll see if I can find a way of mounting it on my EOS and if it will hit infinity but I have a feeling I bought a paperweight...
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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RioRico
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 1120
Location: California or Guatemala or somewhere
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:46 am Post subject: |
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RioRico wrote:
How narrow is the Mir body? Will it fit inside a Canon body cap?
_________________
Too many film+digi cams+lenses, oh my -- Pentax K20D, K-1000, M42s, more
The simple truth is this: There are no neutral photographs. --F-Stop Fitzgerald |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Then I got a Canon FL 2.5/35, trimmed the lens body so it would hit infinity but for some reason, the helicoid now refuses to screw back together so the lens is in pieces.
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I'd persevere with this one - there must be a reason it won't go back together. You just have to find it  |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| martyn_bannister wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Then I got a Canon FL 2.5/35, trimmed the lens body so it would hit infinity but for some reason, the helicoid now refuses to screw back together so the lens is in pieces.
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I'd persevere with this one - there must be a reason it won't go back together. You just have to find it |
Oh I have persevered, just cannot figure out why it won't go back together, the threads just won't engage, no matter what I try...
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| martyn_bannister wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Then I got a Canon FL 2.5/35, trimmed the lens body so it would hit infinity but for some reason, the helicoid now refuses to screw back together so the lens is in pieces.
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I'd persevere with this one - there must be a reason it won't go back together. You just have to find it |
Oh I have persevered, just cannot figure out why it won't go back together, the threads just won't engage, no matter what I try... |
Find a teenager to help - works with the video recorder |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| martyn_bannister wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| martyn_bannister wrote: |
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Then I got a Canon FL 2.5/35, trimmed the lens body so it would hit infinity but for some reason, the helicoid now refuses to screw back together so the lens is in pieces.
|
I'd persevere with this one - there must be a reason it won't go back together. You just have to find it |
Oh I have persevered, just cannot figure out why it won't go back together, the threads just won't engage, no matter what I try... |
Find a teenager to help - works with the video recorder |
My dad got rather frustrated when he tried to do it and he's a mechanic, the screw threads look fine so beyond me why they won't engage...
I will keep it until I can find someone who can screw it back together...
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SXR_Mark
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 506
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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SXR_Mark wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Then I got a Canon FL 2.5/35, trimmed the lens body so it would hit infinity but for some reason, the helicoid now refuses to screw back together so the lens is in pieces.
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Hi Ian,
I had a similar problem with the c-mount 75 mm f1.4 I restored. It only takes a tiny amount of wear or damage at the start of the helicoid threads to prevent them engaging. I gave the threads a thorough rubbing with fine valve lapping paste to take off any rough spots and with a bit of a push it engaged again. A couple of runs up and down with the paste still on the thread and I had no more problems with it engaging. Don't go too far though or you could make the helicoid a bit rough or loose in action.
BTW Ian, I got the Canon FD ring you sent me. Thanks, you're a gent. I know have a fully functional 50mm f1.9 SC lens that in preliminary tests looks to be work very well. I am just waiting for my free time to coincide with a break in the rain to give it a real test.
Cheers
Mark
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers Mark, I'll try that.
Glad you got the ring, those S.C. lenses are supposed to be very good.
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
You will need to very careful with valve lapping paste if the helicoid is aluminium. The abrasive particles tends to embed in the metal and just keep wearing it away. No amount of cleaning seems to remove it and you end up with a very sloppy fit!!! If you suspect burrs on the ends of the thread, a nail file or sandpaper board can take these off and not leave any residue if cleaned carefully. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thing is, I see no burrs or other issues that would stop the thread catching, its just frustrating!
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SXR_Mark
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 506
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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SXR_Mark wrote:
I used a miniature ultra-sonic cleaner to remove the paste. It worked very well. After the helicoid is regreased, there is no risk of further abrasion.
With the helicoid I had problems with, there was also no obvious damage to the thread. So, sandpaper would be much too coarse and make more damage than it would fix. With many starts on the thread and a large pitch, it only takes a tiny bit of roughness to stop it engaging.
The only way I can to see proceed is to use a fine abrasive paste the smooth off the starts of all the helicoid threads and probably open them up a little. You are only doing this at the end of the thread, so with care, the helicoid should not get noticeably sloppy.
I admit that valve lapping paste is not the ideal abrasive, but it is what I had to hand. Maybe you could use something like duraglit or brasso. I don't know how these would work on aluminium though.
Mark
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I'll have another go at it and if I can't do it, maybe I could send it to you and you can try?
It's a very nice lens with godo resolution, colours and contrast so needs to be put back into working order, too nice to leave in pieces.
I have trimmed it sufficiently that it does hit infinity on my EOS, so if I could get it to screw back together it would be a very nice lens imho.
I think this was at f5.6, if not, f8:
100% crop, nice and sharp:
This is wide open:
100% crop, still acceptably sharp to my eyes:
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SXR_Mark
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 506
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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SXR_Mark wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I'll have another go at it and if I can't do it, maybe I could send it to you and you can try?
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Ian,
Yes, by all means. I would be happy to have a go.
Mark
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Kamerer
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 389
Location: Russia Moscow
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Kamerer wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Now this useless Mir 1...
... |
Simply buy the body "Kiev-10" or "Kiev-15". Convert to another type of bayonet is difficult, because the "Mir-1 automat" is not aperture ring.
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Sony NEX-3 + NEX C3
MC Helios-44M-4
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My texts are translated by the electronic translator. Best regards, Sergey.
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