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kheldour
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: Pentacon 4 200 - "fog" issue - need advise |
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kheldour wrote:
Guys,
need some advise. Picked up a manual lens yesterday and noticed some "fog" on the pictures when I choose high aperture (11, 16, 22). Fully open until 8 the pictures are pretty well.
Lenses are clean and have no fungus etc.
Any comment or advise welcome.
Many thanks in advance
Joerg
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Pentacon 4 200 - "fog" issue - need advise |
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Attila wrote:
| kheldour wrote: |
Guys,
need some advise. Picked up a manual lens yesterday and noticed some "fog" on the pictures when I choose high aperture (11, 16, 22). Fully open until 8 the pictures are pretty well.
Lenses are clean and have no fungus etc.
Any comment or advise welcome.
Many thanks in advance
Joerg
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
First. Wellcome. Thanks for share your pic and ask to us your question.
If you can, share pics of the lens form the rear and closed at the problematic apertures.
A pair of pics taken to iluminated subkect like the pic posted, with the lens closed at the F/11, 16 and 22 can be useful too.
Anyways, it seems to be an internal reflections from the MC.
Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 7447
Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
I agree with Rino about the internal reflections. I had a 200 lens with the same problem at small apertures. A long hood (an A4 card rolled into a tube) will probably improve things but that would be impractical for everyday use.
My hunch is that the black covering on the edges of the lens elements has been removed and needs renewing. If you can post a picture of the lens itself, to see what model it is, we can show you how to dismantle and reassemble it.
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6943
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Welcome!!
Try it with a lens hood.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I agree that it looks like an internal reflection problem. You see this a lot with very old lenses that have many glass to air surfaces like the Ross Homocentric.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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kheldour
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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kheldour wrote:
I used a lenshood 
For shooting the aperture blades, I already took out glass elements. 
Thanks for the warm welcome everybody.
I will writeup an intro later tonight.
Joerg
Rear side f22
Front view f22
Rear side f8
Front view f8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The aperture looks to be in great condition with no oil. I just bought the exact same model of this lens, I'll try mine and see if it exhibits the same issues.
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3437
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
I have the same model, had no problems like that. But I did not use the smaller apertures sofar  . |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Optimal performance usually come around at F8 with tele lenses , so never mind if not good at higher apertures.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
Use the lens shade is perhaps the only way to reduce the reflections.
But it's nothig to do when you have a brightness background or the light is into the image.
Do you use filter over the lens? Yes? Well, try to take a pic without it.
Without any filter and with the lens shade, the best way to avoid reflections
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6943
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I forgot to mention I have this lens and it will hold its own against my sharpest modern lenses. It's good centre sharpness wide open and I have had no flare issues.
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
I would say that light is entering mount, is what happened to me with a Pentacon 135-2.8. Look at the locking ring, as these lenses came to various mountings, these are fixed with screws and light can enter there.
This type of problem occurs with diaphragms closed.
_________________
Canon 5D II-Sony nex 6
Canon L 80-200 f 2.8 - Canon L 135 f2 - Canon FD 135/2.5 convert to EOS - Yashica 50 1.4 ML - Canon FD 50 1.2 - Distagon 35mm 2.8 T AEJ - Minolta MC 24mm f 2.8 - Canon LTM 85 1.9- Canon LTM 85mm 1.9 convert to EOS - Rodenstock Heligon 50 1.9 - Color Skopar 50 2.8 & MAte Box & filters 4X4
Contax RTS II y Minolta SRT 303 - 28-135 3.6 Tokina - Minolta MD 45 f2.0 - Minolta Zoom 80 200 4.5 (Leica)
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
Another evidence is to occur in the same sector of the frame. If so, no doubt the light entering side.
_________________
Canon 5D II-Sony nex 6
Canon L 80-200 f 2.8 - Canon L 135 f2 - Canon FD 135/2.5 convert to EOS - Yashica 50 1.4 ML - Canon FD 50 1.2 - Distagon 35mm 2.8 T AEJ - Minolta MC 24mm f 2.8 - Canon LTM 85 1.9- Canon LTM 85mm 1.9 convert to EOS - Rodenstock Heligon 50 1.9 - Color Skopar 50 2.8 & MAte Box & filters 4X4
Contax RTS II y Minolta SRT 303 - 28-135 3.6 Tokina - Minolta MD 45 f2.0 - Minolta Zoom 80 200 4.5 (Leica)
www.isgleasphoto.com
The life is more easy with this forum .... |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
Ther fog has a blue/purple cast. Did it occur in the mount flaw?
Rino
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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kheldour
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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kheldour wrote:
Hi folks,
thanks for the advise.
I have checked the lenses, aperture blades and the lens body itself again and couldn't find anything.
Then I did some more test photos and found some interesting outcome.
Shouting from INSIDE the building into outside didn't gave me a fog at all.
Shouting OUTSIDE and the fog was back again. Then I tried a longer lens hood - no effect. Even with almost 5" lens hood the flare/fog was still there and still at the same level.
Both pictures taken at f1:22
INSIDE to outside picture:
Outside picture:
Both at f1:22
p.s. How do I link pictures into the thread? What do I do wrong?
_________________
Joerg
K-r •• Spotmatic •• Sigma AF 18-125 • DA 50-200 • Mir-20M 20 3.5 • SMC Takumar 55 1.8 • Helios 44m2 58 2.0 • Helios 44m5 58 2.0 • Super Takumar 85 1.9 • Olympia MC 135 2.8 • Pentacon 200 4.0 • Pentacon 300 4.0 |
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
| kheldour wrote: |
Hi folks,
thanks for the advise.
I have checked the lenses, aperture blades and the lens body itself again and couldn't find anything.
Then I did some more test photos and found some interesting outcome.
Shouting from INSIDE the building into outside didn't gave me a fog at all.
Shouting OUTSIDE and the fog was back again. Then I tried a longer lens hood - no effect. Even with almost 5" lens hood the flare/fog was still there and still at the same level.
Both pictures taken at f1:22
INSIDE to outside picture:
[img]http://gallery.me.com/kheldour/100406/_IGP5010/web.jpg?ver=13040928360001[/img]
Outside picture:
[img]http://gallery.me.com/kheldour/100406/_IGP5016/web.jpg?ver=13041021990001[/img]
Both at f1:22
p.s. How do I link pictures into the thread? What do I do wrong? |
Again, wrapped around the lens with a black cloth and take a picture outside. If you have more fog, is that light entering one side.
The link of the photos do not work.
_________________
Canon 5D II-Sony nex 6
Canon L 80-200 f 2.8 - Canon L 135 f2 - Canon FD 135/2.5 convert to EOS - Yashica 50 1.4 ML - Canon FD 50 1.2 - Distagon 35mm 2.8 T AEJ - Minolta MC 24mm f 2.8 - Canon LTM 85 1.9- Canon LTM 85mm 1.9 convert to EOS - Rodenstock Heligon 50 1.9 - Color Skopar 50 2.8 & MAte Box & filters 4X4
Contax RTS II y Minolta SRT 303 - 28-135 3.6 Tokina - Minolta MD 45 f2.0 - Minolta Zoom 80 200 4.5 (Leica)
www.isgleasphoto.com
The life is more easy with this forum .... |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Something to do with the way that site generates the links to the pics, they aren't static URLs.
Here are your pics, I uploaded them here:
I'm afraid I haven't got a clue what's wrong with your lens...
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 7447
Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:23 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
| kheldour wrote: |
Hi folks,
thanks for the advise.
I have checked the lenses, aperture blades and the lens body itself again and couldn't find anything. |
Did you try my suggestion? Blacken the edges of the glass elements with a marker pen.
| Quote: |
| p.s. How do I link pictures into the thread? What do I do wrong? |
Now someone has quoted your message you should be able to post pictures using the IMG tags but, as Ian said, there is something unusual with your URLs. Maybe it's the missing "www". Try using the "Upload picture" button, send your picture and then click on the "standard" link below it when it is displayed.
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kheldour
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: |
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kheldour wrote:
| francotirador wrote: |
Again, wrapped around the lens with a black cloth and take a picture outside. If you have more fog, is that light entering one side.
|
Following your advise I nailed the error down to a faulty M42-PK-Adapter.
The M42-Adpater on the lens side doesn't cover the PK-Adapter enough.
Therefore a small opening is still there, where light breaches into the mirror house of the camera.
Simple as that
_________________
Joerg
K-r •• Spotmatic •• Sigma AF 18-125 • DA 50-200 • Mir-20M 20 3.5 • SMC Takumar 55 1.8 • Helios 44m2 58 2.0 • Helios 44m5 58 2.0 • Super Takumar 85 1.9 • Olympia MC 135 2.8 • Pentacon 200 4.0 • Pentacon 300 4.0 |
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
Very similar to what happened to me.
Good luck.
_________________
Canon 5D II-Sony nex 6
Canon L 80-200 f 2.8 - Canon L 135 f2 - Canon FD 135/2.5 convert to EOS - Yashica 50 1.4 ML - Canon FD 50 1.2 - Distagon 35mm 2.8 T AEJ - Minolta MC 24mm f 2.8 - Canon LTM 85 1.9- Canon LTM 85mm 1.9 convert to EOS - Rodenstock Heligon 50 1.9 - Color Skopar 50 2.8 & MAte Box & filters 4X4
Contax RTS II y Minolta SRT 303 - 28-135 3.6 Tokina - Minolta MD 45 f2.0 - Minolta Zoom 80 200 4.5 (Leica)
www.isgleasphoto.com
The life is more easy with this forum .... |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6943
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Odd how your links don't work. I tried editing but still no joy so I have linked them to the images hosted on the forum.
I suggest another image host or upload them here as they don't work for me either.
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kheldour
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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kheldour wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the guesses and advises.
_________________
Joerg
K-r •• Spotmatic •• Sigma AF 18-125 • DA 50-200 • Mir-20M 20 3.5 • SMC Takumar 55 1.8 • Helios 44m2 58 2.0 • Helios 44m5 58 2.0 • Super Takumar 85 1.9 • Olympia MC 135 2.8 • Pentacon 200 4.0 • Pentacon 300 4.0 |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Very glad you found the root of your problem.
My copy of this lens arrived today and I shot some quick test pics, I like the IQ a lot, no PP at all on these shots, I think the sharpness and contrast are excellent, the lens handles very nicely too, aperture is snappy even though my copy is quite battered.
I really love the colours this lens produces, so vivid.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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