Can Anyone Tell Me If This Is Haze, Separation, Fungus?

[justtorchit]

I picked up this Tokina 300/2.8 AT-X (Manual focus model) in Nikon AI mount recently on eBay. It's in near mint cosmetic condition. The seller (Matisuya) listed it as optically EX with no haze/fungus/problems. He has great feedback and always sells what looks to be quality gear at very practical prices. Looking inside however clearly shows something. The rest of the optics are gorgeous and the flashlight I used to grab this snap with my P&S really exaggerates the issue. Out and about I see no image degradation and wouldn't expect to since this problem is on one element, around the edge of it, seemingly outside the imaging part of the lens.

I'm curious is this is something that will get worse or what. The seller has great communication and after I messaged him about it, apologized and offered a full refund, no qualms. I just like the lens and am thinking this issue may be of no consequence. I also kinda of don't want to deal with the hassle to ship back to Japan...

Any help is much appreciated!

[Sevo]

Well, if you ask me, it is dirt, presumably on the lens surfaces towards the aperture. Only a laboratory could tell whether it is fungus infested dirt - but even if it is not, the presence of a dust coat does increase the risk of growing fungus whenever stored in a damp environment, as fungus spores are omnipresent, and dirt provides a good starter for any biofilm.

At least in the visible bit there is no intense fungus growth that is likely to have already damaged the coating, so cleaning should be worth while if there is nothing worse visible from other angles.

[justtorchit]

Sevo -

This image shows the center of the issue. If you imagine the rest of the circular optic, the affliction tapers off as it moves towards the opposite edge. In typical daylight, looking into the lens, you can't even really see anything there. It's only when I took a look under strong light, as I typically do just to be thorough, that I saw this.

Thanks for the input, any recommendations for cleaning?

[ManualFocus-G]

Are the images affected? If not, just ask for a partial refund. I have loads of images with dust in and they still perform perfectly.

[luisalegria]

It looks like condensation from the lubricants, etc. from the diaphragm area.

Quite common on some brands of lenses I think, I have seen this on several Sigmas.

Very, very common also on very old lenses (1920's-30's).

It may be easy to clean if you can get to those parts. I generally have good luck with just alcohol.

It probably will have an effect on performance, including decreased contrast, increased flare .

[stingOM]

I also have this lens. From you pic, it is very difficult to tell the nature of the problem. Does it look like oily mist to you?

I would say that it will definitely affect IQ if you are shooting into strong lighting condition. Other than that, you might get reduced contrast and possibly reduced resolution in the centre of the image.

It is hard to tell. I would return the lens if you had spent a lot of money getting the lens. I paif €400 for mine and I bought from the US.

[cooltouch]

Wel to me it looks really hard to tell exactly what the problem is. I just see some sort of out of focus spots in the middle of an interior element. Probably one adjecent to the aperture blades, and it's probably just oil or condensation. It should be easy enough to clean, I'm thinking. Usually a lens can be dismantled pretty easily to get to the aperture blades, so it shouldn't be a complicated job to reach the element if its one that is adjecent to the aperture assembly.

Hey, if I bought it for a good price, I'd just have the work done rather than send it back and have to pay shipping all the way back to Japan.

[justtorchit]

I went out and made some images with this lens today and cannot see anything drastic. I have always loved the feel of this lens as I had one before and have never used a MF lens with a quicker, smoother focusing mechanism. You can literally focus with your pinky in an instant. I had a banged up version which I sold and have missed it. Once this came up, I had to do it.

I think the image I posted, as stingOM mentioned, makes it difficult to see. What I should have said was, optically this lens looks impeccable under normal lighting circumstances, just looking into the lens. It is only when I hold a bright light at one end and look in the other that I notice this bluish concentric ringing on the outer edge of an inner element. The ring looks dry, like a drinking glass that has water in it slowly evaporating which will leave small rings. All the other things you are seeing on the elements is just reflections from the flashlight and dust particles. Shine a light through even your cleanest elements and you will see there is just about always a little dust present. That is all this lens has. I have made another image to show the difference between ambient light and strong backlight.



Under normal conditions, you wouldn't notice anything is wrong with the lens. It looks gorgeous. Only under strong backlighting is the affliction present.

Luis- Your hypothesis seems most likely as it is near the diaphragm and appears like it was once wet and has since dried on the element.

As suggested I requested a partial refund to which the seller efficiently and amiably agreed. Matsuiyastore is his username (I think I spelled it incorrectly the first time I posted it). He's a great guy. I'll perhaps hang onto this one unless another "Mintier" copy comes my way. Don't know that I will go to the lengths of having it serviced seeing as the images look great for now. Hopefully I don't run into anything in the future. It's really a great lens and a joy to use!

I appreciate all the input guys!

[dnas]

I've noticed some Tokina lenses have faint concentric colour circles, but it doesn't usually signify any problems that I've seen. (although those look a bit different to what I've seen)

I can see them on the original photo.... I was looking at the dust specks previously, and didn't notice the coloured rings....

How much was it?

[Sevo]

You are not looking through all the lens. Parts of the lens may well display strong chromatic aberration normally corrected by the other half. Even more so if you view in-barrel structures, i.e. something which may have a negative distance to the lens nodes. And ground lens edges do have prismatic structures as well

In other words, if you look through a lens beyond the regular working angles, you may see lots of funky and meaningless things. These are irrelevant as they are designed into the lens - even they should have a performance impact that simply means the lens was not designed to be any better.

You should be more concerned about the condensation/dust in the lens - that looks way beyond the threshold where I consider a cleaning of my lenses advisable.

[aoleg]

Looks like dust to me. Maybe a bit more than average, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. A cleaning may be worth it, but it's not required IMO.

[PnR]

I got some lense in same condition, I try to clear by water, alcohol, H2O2 + amoni, purosol solution .... but it will come back after some days, it make lower contrast, haze

This condition is very hard to check, If you check lense in sun light you never seen but you check in neon light you can see. You control the lense to "shadow of light" lay down on face of glass group you can see it.

I don't know exactly what is that, but I think lense is dying because it's too old.In Vietnam, I saw many "blind" lense, its glass look like milky.all of them are opened to cleared,I think some repaire man used some wrong solution.
But I get lense 40 years old but glass is still good.

Anyway, please don't worry be happy with your lense

[Pancolart]

Seems like dandruff from the photo .

[aoleg]

[Pancolart]

Nicely summed Aoleg. It seems glass deterioration is really rare. I assume irrevocable damage happens when element isn't made purely out of glass. Mostly with newer lenses (Japan 8/500mm T2 multiple brand names). Otherwise it is usually coating that suffers and in worst case it can be removed or polished.

We could make a topic with list of lenses having bad elements inside. Though it could hurt reputation of some lenses being falsely accused .

[justtorchit]

[aoleg]

Very nice contrast. Clearly unaffected by the presence of dust. I say, forget about the issue and enjoy the lens!