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Jupiter 9
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Jupiter 9 Reply with quote

I am looking at a chrome Jupiter 9 and the owner reports: "Designed for the Fed , Zorki ( LTM - Leica thread mount) and for Kiev Contax ( Bayonet ) and Zenit Praktica (M42 ). M39x1 mount ( LTM ). " Can someone tell me how it can be used for these different registrations? It does have a threaded mount.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

It can't. I think the seller must be quoting some reference source that states that the Jupiter-9 was available for ("designed for" in that sense) those three discrete mounts/registers. It seems to me that I often see that sort of boilerplate quoted wholesale in listings for Russian lenses.

I wonder whether it's the last sentence fragment ("M39x1 mount {LTM}") that's intended to identify the specific lens being offered.

Cheers,

Jon


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's for use on a non-4/3rds camera, you will need the fat version. The rangefinder version was skinny.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're saying the chrome lens did come in M42 or at least a longer registration distance? Fat or skinny relative to what? I guess I'd need to see both.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are basicly 3 versions with dif. registration distance.

First the old alu. Its M39, but still for a FF. If you use M39->M42 converter, ull get a 0,3 mm difference and you loose infinity.

And then the black M42 version (there is also a black MC version).
Ive got the black M42 version (not MC).
Heres my topic about it.


Then there is a M39 RF version. This will NOT fit your SLR.

See.. She lost lost all that weight on her hips.

Russian lenses made in the 60s were M39.
The Russian "beast" SLR was the Zenit 3M, it used a M39 thread mount.

So thats why...


Last edited by Joosep on Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:18 pm; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a fat (68mm OD) heavy (350g) silver J9 #6501253 in M39 mount, same registry as an M42 lens. With M39-M42 and M42-PK adapters contact-cemented on, I can almost forget it's not a K-mount native. I *think* the L39/LTM version is more like 58mm OD. The fat one definitely looks bulbous.

EDIT: I use a cheap simple M39-M42 adapter, which is just a double-threaded ring that threads INSIDE the M42 mount, with no distance change. I use a flangeless infinity-focus M42-PK adapter. No registry problems, no distance changes, and my J9 has infinity focus on my PK and M42 cameras.



First: the fat J9 mounted on a FF SLR.
Then: the J9, M42-PK adapter, M39-M42 adapter.


Last edited by RioRico on Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RioRico wrote:
I have a fat (68mm OD) heavy (350g) silver J9 #6501253 in M39 mount, same registry as an M42 lens. With M39-M42 and M42-PK adapters contact-cemented on, I can almost forget it's not a K-mount native. I *think* the L39/LTM version is more like 58mm OD. The fat one definitely looks bulbous.

EDIT: I use a cheap simple M39-M42 adapter, which is just a double-threaded ring that threads INSIDE the M42 mount, with no distance change. I use a flangeless infinity-focus M42-PK adapter. No registry problems, no distance changes, and my J9 has infinity focus on my PK and M42 cameras.


Im 100% sure it does not have the same reg. distance.
Its 45,2 мм vs. 45,5 мм.
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/jupiter-9.html

Just my experience. I have a M39 russian. And with the M39->M42 adapter it does not focus to infinity on my Spottie.


Last edited by Joosep on Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I misunderstood whats written above as it sounds to me like you're saying there is no silver M42 version.

It does exist and is quite a kickarse lens





PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hari wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood whats written above as it sounds to me like you're saying there is no silver M42 version.

It does exist and is quite a kickarse lens

I really doubt there is a alu M42 version. (like 95% sure)
Yours is just rebuild or the adapter is firmly screwed on there.
What year is yours made ?

The transformation looks like this...
The SLR version

Silver M39 -> Black M39 -> Black M42 -> Black M42 MC


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joosep wrote:
Hari wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood whats written above as it sounds to me like you're saying there is no silver M42 version.

It does exist and is quite a kickarse lens

I really doubt there is a alu M42 version. (like 95% sure)
Yours is just rebuild or the adapter is firmly screwed on there.
What year is yours made ?

The transformation looks like this...
The SLR version

Silver M39 -> Black M39 (rare) -> Black M42 -> Black M42 MC



Hmmmm maybe it was converted if you're so sure abt it ... I sold it but I do have some pictures of it ... lemme check if I have any clear shots of the mount so we can check what the story really is


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw also only with M39 mount silver one.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the pix but the rear cap is on :/

I'll check with the friend who bought it and get back to this thread

I'm pretty sure the mount was native M42 ...



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From that picture, there seems little chance this one could be used for SLR, correct?


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
From that picture, there seems little chance this one could be used for SLR, correct?

This one is RF lens, tall and slim , no practical usage on SLR.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it can be used on some 4/3 cameras, but only for closeups...


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joosep wrote:
I think it can be used on some 4/3 cameras, but only for closeups...
on this way you can use on any SLR , but useless really.

I have one professionally converted to Exakta mount , thanks for Jiri I am proud owner of it, still untested.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's for an RF and you don't want it, please do let me know!

Maybe I can pick it up!


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just fill up Jupiter lenses in lens database and I found in research

The Jupiter-9 is a copy of the pre-war Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f/2, and perhaps that's the reason why this lens has such an outstanding reputation. In fact some even compare it favorably to Leica optics...

Don't know I never had any Leica optic and pre-war Sonnar, but I did test Orio's RF lend 8,5cm f2 Jupiter I was amazed ...


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attila wrote:
I just fill up Jupiter lenses in lens database and I found in research

The Jupiter-9 is a copy of the pre-war Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f/2, and perhaps that's the reason why this lens has such an outstanding reputation. In fact some even compare it favorably to Leica optics...

Don't know I never had any Leica optic and pre-war Sonnar, but I did test Orio's RF lend 8,5cm f2 Jupiter I was amazed ...



Talking abt pre-war, Attila, how much should I expect for my m42 black biotar, 17 blades? Body is in good condition and lenses are clean n clear


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rare , price can be very vary no common price. I estimate a bit above 100 USD.

179* CARL ZEISS JENA BLACK BIOTAR 58/2 *17-BLADES *M42 153.50 USD 2008-04-15 19 14006

I found this entry only in Lens Database. Title remind me this is went on higher prices auction.

So 100-200 USD especially if we see I have three copies and only one is clear ..


PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attila wrote:
Rare , price can be very vary no common price. I estimate a bit above 100 USD.

179* CARL ZEISS JENA BLACK BIOTAR 58/2 *17-BLADES *M42 153.50 USD 2008-04-15 19 14006

I found this entry only in Lens Database. Title remind me this is went on higher prices auction.

So 100-200 USD especially if we see I have three copies and only one is clear ..


OK! Thanks mate!


PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joosep wrote:
Im 100% sure it does not have the same reg. distance.
Its 45,2 мм vs. 45,5 мм.
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/jupiter-9.html

Just my experience. I have a M39 russian. And with the M39->M42 adapter it does not focus to infinity on my Spottie.

From the translation of that page it looks like the J9 was made with five registry's -- "Operating distance: 28.8 mm 34.85 mm 44 mm 45,2 mm 45,5 mm". I am fairly sure that my aluminium J9 is the 45.5mm version. Today I wandered a nearby town with the J9 on my K20D. The following shot was taken about 85-100 m from the old county courthouse, f/8 at 1/2000 second. First is the entire photo, reduced. Second is 100% crop.



Not all infinities are created equal. Smile But on the J9, the scale markings go from 25m to infinity, so I think that 85-100m is close enough to 'infinity' for this lens. Were this J9's registry 45.2mm, I think the far focus would be closer to 10m, and the courthouse a blur.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RioRico wrote:
From the translation of that page[/b][/url] it looks like the J9 was made with five registry's -- "Operating distance: 28.8 mm 34.85 mm 44 mm 45,2 mm 45,5 mm". I am fairly sure that my aluminium J9 is the 45.5mm version.


Yep, those were Leica M39 (rangefinder), Kiev/Contax (rangefinder) , the Automat version for Kiev 10/15 (SLR), M39 mount for Zenit (SLR), and M42 universal screw mount (SLR). Only the last two types are adaptable to modern SLRs (m4/3 may take Leica and Contax versions, too).

That said, silver (aluminum) lenses made for early Zenit SLR cameras were M39, or 45.2mm flange distance. They would not reach infinity if used on an M42 camera with a M39-M42 ring; there were instructions published in Sovied photo magazines on how to properly convert the mount from M39 to M42 for various lenses.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For M39 SLR lenses I use an adapter, which is a bit thinner and infinity isn't problem. I think it's the best solution - no conversion is needed, a single adapter will allow you to use all SLR M39 lenses...

Mir-1 37/2.8
Helios-44 58/2
Jupiter-9 85/2
Helios-40 85/1.5
Jupiter-11 135/4
Jupiter-6 180/2.8

maybe there's more of them...


PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aoleg wrote:
RioRico wrote:
From the translation of that page[/b][/url] it looks like the J9 was made with five registry's -- "Operating distance: 28.8 mm 34.85 mm 44 mm 45,2 mm 45,5 mm". I am fairly sure that my aluminium J9 is the 45.5mm version.


Yep, those were Leica M39 (rangefinder), Kiev/Contax (rangefinder) , the Automat version for Kiev 10/15 (SLR), M39 mount for Zenit (SLR), and M42 universal screw mount (SLR). Only the last two types are adaptable to modern SLRs (m4/3 may take Leica and Contax versions, too).

That said, silver (aluminum) lenses made for early Zenit SLR cameras were M39, or 45.2mm flange distance. They would not reach infinity if used on an M42 camera with a M39-M42 ring; there were instructions published in Sovied photo magazines on how to properly convert the mount from M39 to M42 for various lenses.


+1

no-X wrote:
For M39 SLR lenses I use an adapter, which is a bit thinner and infinity isn't problem. I think it's the best solution - no conversion is needed, a single adapter will allow you to use all SLR M39 lenses...

Mir-1 37/2.8
Helios-44 58/2
Jupiter-9 85/2
Helios-40 85/1.5
Jupiter-11 135/4
Jupiter-6 180/2.8

maybe there's more of them...


Again +1. Thats what I thought.
Just woke up, the only lens I can think is... Tair-11 133/2.8