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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
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 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: Volna 9 vs Ind. 61 L/Z vs S. Macro Tak. distance & bokeh |
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Nordentro wrote:
Both shot wide open with flash 
It's pretty big difference in magnification of these two lenses don't you think?
Corrected after some comments: focus distance test for maximum magnification may be a better sentence.
Edit: added Super Takumar as well
Industar 61 L/Z
Volna 9
Super Macro Takumar
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Lars | Manuellfokus.no
Last edited by Nordentro on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:18 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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revers
Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 574
Location: In the country just north of Toronto Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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revers wrote:
Were they shot from the same distance?
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Ron
Olympus OM-D E-M5, 14-42 & 45/1.8.
Panasonic G1, GF1, 14-45, 45-200 & various legacy lenses.
Canon S5, Sony 1.7 Tele-converter & Raynox DCR 150 Macro converter. |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 733
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
| revers wrote: |
| Were they shot from the same distance? |
There is a difference in the minimum focusing distance between the lenses, that's all. They're both 50mm lenses. |
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WolverineX
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 1693
Location: Zagreb , Croatia , Europe
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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WolverineX wrote:
Dude, you need to clean your keyboard
as for difference in magnification, industar's minimum focusing distance iz 30cm and when you set volna to the same distance magnification is the same, it's only when you go to the volna's minimum focusing distance of 24cm that magnifications is bigger. so your test isn't really fair to the industar , sharp little lens that could
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http://forum.mflenses.com/wolverinex-testing-my-lenses-series-link-list-t39524.html |
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
| WolverineX wrote: |
Dude, you need to clean your keyboard
as for difference in magnification, industar's minimum focusing distance iz 30cm and when you set volna to the same distance magnification is the same, it's only when you go to the volna's minimum focusing distance of 24cm that magnifications is bigger. so your test isn't really fair to the industar , sharp little lens that could |
Yeah, it should be called focus distance test 
Same distance projects the same size of the picture
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
Edit: added Super Takumar as well
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Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
It also shows bokeh difference. Industar, which is in fact tessar corrected for maximum speed (f/2.8 ) shows less pleasant bokeh than Takumar, which is also based on tessar formula, but without the extreme corrections (f/4). Volna, which has 50% more optical elements to achieve the same speed as Industar (f/2.8 ) can use less agressive corrections and produce the smoothest bokeh of the three lenses 
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
| It also shows bokeh difference. Industar, which is in fact tessar corrected for maximum speed (f/2.8 ) shows less pleasant bokeh than Takumar, which is also based on tessar formula, but without the extreme corrections (f/4). Volna, which has 50% more optical elements to achieve the same speed as Industar (f/2.8 ) can use less agressive corrections and produce the smoothest bokeh of the three lenses |
Good comment! I didn't thought about bokeh difference. Added to the title
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Forgive me, but what does "corrections" mean in the sense that you used it? |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11061
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Forgive me but the minimum focus distance written on the lenses tells me there is a difference in magnification at closest un-aided focus distance.
To compare lenses shouldn't magnification be equal? I would test each on bellows at 2:1 to show resolving power difference.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
| visualopsins wrote: |
Forgive me but the minimum focus distance written on the lenses tells me there is a difference in magnification at closest un-aided focus distance.
To compare lenses shouldn't magnification be equal? I would test each on bellows at 2:1 to show resolving power difference. |
Good idea
I only have bellows with m39 mount, but I'll figure some out to test it properly from the same distance. Maybe I'll test all three from 0,3m!
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Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
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vulko
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
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vulko wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
| It also shows bokeh difference. Industar, which is in fact tessar corrected for maximum speed (f/2.8 ) shows less pleasant bokeh than Takumar, which is also based on tessar formula, but without the extreme corrections (f/4). Volna, which has 50% more optical elements to achieve the same speed as Industar (f/2.8 ) can use less agressive corrections and produce the smoothest bokeh of the three lenses |
I'd have to disagree. Industars' bokeh is better, cause it separates object from background. Takumars' no to much.
Agree that this test isn't objective. You can compare Takumar and Volna, but not Industar, cause of different distances, which affects bokeh and background separation. |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
Industar is faster and the distance is different.
Anyway, check the OOF light characteristic - it has hard edge and hard dot inside the circle. It causes double-lining which is visible on button edges. Notize the "Z" and "X" letters. They are not blurred, but look jittered.
Takumar is better, OOF light has less hard edge and less significant dot. Double lining is lesser because of that.
Volna's OOF light has extremely soft edge and no structure, it blends with the background perfectly. There is no double lining, objects in the background aren't jittered, but blurred and perfectly smooth.
themoleman342: I think shape of OOF lights and bokeh quality is related to corrections of astigmatism... with a few lens elements the correction must be more agressive and isn't possible to implement it without negative impact on bokeh... that's why fast tessars and fast triplets show the typical rings in bokeh, or double-lining artifacts (when used wide-open)
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
I had the Industar and the Volna and I kept the Volna.
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
A new test from same distance
@ f2.8
Industar 61 L/Z
Volna 9
@f4
Industar 61 L/Z
Pentax Super Macro Takumar
Volna 9
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