Kinoptik

[xoxixox]

Hi all,
can someone explain me the impressive price of Kinoptik lenses, I can easily find them on the Bay but always for thousands of dollars !!

I have contacted the Kinoptik society here in France, and here are the prices of the lenses (new one) for 24X36 (D)SLR

SPECIAL-CINE 210mm F3 7196 EUR
SPECIAL-CINE 300mm F4 6964 EUR
APLANAT 500mm F6 9285 EUR
KINOPTAR 1000mm F8 41319 EUR
MACRO 50mm F2 3946 EUR
MACRO 75mm F2 4768 EUR
MACRO 100mm F2 6160 EUR
MACRO 150mm F3 7428 EUR

Are they so good ?

[Attila]

I guess they are stunning lenses and movie makers can afford it, they are made in small numbers so prices logically higher than photographic lenses.

[cooltouch]

Back in about 1990 or so, when I was living in the Los Angeles area, I was looking for a rear camera mount for an old lens I bought. It was like a 600mm f/5.6 or so -- huge and not very special optically. The lens had a mount that could be adapted for use with 35mm movie cameras, and I found out that there was also an adapter available that would allow one to mount a T-mount to it. After calling around to a bunch of different places, I finally found a place in Hollywood that catered to the film industry that had this adapter in stock. So I drove out there. Looked around their showroom while I was there, and was astounded by the prices they had on some of their equipment. Like $10,000 for a tripod, and it wasn't anything particularly special either. I mean, sure it was pretty big and heavy duty, but the equivalent for a view camera or a surveyor's transit would probably have been less than $500. But because this was for a movie camera and being sold by a shop that catered to the movie industry -- $10,000, and I guess they got it too.

I had to pay "only" about $40 for that special adapter for my 600/5.6 lens and felt incredibly lucky to get out of there for so cheap.

So, next time you wonder how it is that movie production companies can spend so much money making a movie, probably a significant chunk of it went into the equipment used to film it. And I guess any outfit that caters to the movie industry is able to charge really big bucks for its gear if that's what the production company wants.

[xoxixox]

Thanks for the explanation, I agree for the film industry, but I'm talking for 24X36 lenses, I gave the Kinoptik prices for new lenses but for 24X36, not for cinema camera. I believe that they make lenses on demand and hand made, so that can explain the high prices on new one, but on old one ?
Anybody have try the lenses with a DSLR, The 100mm macro and the 75 are reputed.

[woodrim]

I went to pbase and did a search on Kinoptik, which returned one gallery of a cine lens. The bokeh looks quite interesting. There seems to be a very good separation between in-focus points and the well OOF backgrounds, giving a very decent 3-D effect. See what you think:
http://www.pbase.com/gummiebear/kinoptik_210mm_f28_t3

[visualopsins]

It does not require many best available skilled workers, such as design engineers, optical and materials scientists, laboratory technicians, and fine craftsmen, to incur significant salary costs.

Combine with time-consuming manufacturing process, low product volume, and highly specialized market.

Voila! Atmospheric prices are necessary to remain in business. Those who require the best must also pay the most for it, no?

A similar analogy can be made with high end audio equipments, fine automobiles, spacecraft; there are many examples.

Research and development costs are astronomical compared to end user price. Consider how much was spent to develop and bring to market the iPhone. The first prototype cost millions of dollars; that figure does not include cost of previous developments necessary to conceive of the first prototype.

[cooltouch]

visualopsins, as they say in Vegas, you are "making the point the hard way." That is, you're pointing out the obvious and often arduous ways it takes to get the job done, rather than just getting the job done without making a big deal about it. One of the things I feel I can count on when it comes to "getting the job done," whether it's American Ingenuity or its European or Asian or Down Under equivalent, which I know very well is in no short supply, is that people can figure out solutions to problems, often easy and/or simple solutions, that we ignore at the risk of being hoisted on our own petards.

I personally love it when I find that dedicated photographers have been able to develop simple solutions to complex problems.

[Bruce]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43168849@N08/3992926260/
I call this a fav.

[cooltouch]

Yah, that swirly bokeh goodness. Truly amazing optical results, eh?

[xoxixox]

Thanks for the links and the explanation.
the swirly bokeh seems to be a particularity of the Kinoptik lenses,

[kds315*]

Kinoptik lenses do not always swirl, as this would have not been what a film maker would have liked. It usually appears if an image circle is being used larger than for the intended use (such as a lens for 16mm film on a mft camera).

[lulalake]

[kds315*]

With some lenses yes, but here it is caused by vignetting mainly.

[Seele]

As far as I know, Kinoptik has been a very small establishment for a very long time, and near enough to building lenses to order.

In addition, for the last twenty years - or even more - Asian interests have pushed the prices of Kinoptik lenses (and several other brands) up to stratospheric levels, much beyond their real values. One can still get lucky at times, nevertheless. But for the new ones, credit crunch notwithstanding, I feel that they still sell.

[lulalake]

[visualopsins]