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Three M49 lenses that came on a turret
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Three M49 lenses that came on a turret Reply with quote
Hi all,

This is my first post here.
I did a search here and on the web but have found very little on these 3 lenses I just picked up on a flea market.

3M Ilex Optical 21x
3M Olympus 14.8x
3M Olympus 29.7x

No distance markings.
No helicoidal focus, but a screw focus with a locking ring on all three.
Built in front filters on all three.

There was an UK e*ay sale a while ago to what seems to be similar items, but no pics.
I'd guess cine lab lenses.

Register distante is perfect for EOS adaptation! They all have M49 threads on the back.
Has anyone ever seen these?
Has anyone ever mounted something similar?
What is M49 used for in lens mounting?http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2805/8841744091_9a2327cc16_c_d.jpg

Last edited by coisasdavida on Sun May 26, 2013 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Three M49 lenses that came on a turret Reply with quote
coisasdavida wrote:



PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Three M49 lenses that came on a turret Reply with quote
coisasdavida wrote:
Register distante is perfect for EOS adaptation!


Welcome coisasdavida!

Register distance of these lenses is longer than EOS? (Longer is preferable -- identical register distances could be problematic...)

EDITS! (in bold): I have (and had Smile) some lenses with 49.2mm/1-15/16" native mounts -- branded Tokyo-Kogaku, Soligor, Sun, and Vemar. These had attached 49.2mm/1-15/16" screw-on adapters for Nikon F and Minolta MD. Sorry, I don't know if these adapters will fit your lenses. Besides, they are relatively rare...

Hoping somebody else has a solution for you!

Last edited by visualopsins on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:15 am; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Longer! Around 46mm.


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Perhaps they are old TV lenses, the turret looks like its off an old camera.



PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome try them out! Smile 46mm is okay on all cameras, look forward your results.


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was thinking about the numbers inscribed on the lenses: 14.8x, 21x and 29.7x.
These are probably projection lenses of some sort and these are their enlarging power in the specific system their were designed for.

They look like 50~60mm, 75~85mm and 130~160mm. They all have fixed diafragms I believe I can remove.

The rear portion on all three is removable. I believe I can put that in a lathe and trim it. That would fit of one of those T-Mount adapter without the threaded ring they have. I'll look into that.

But thanks for your remarks.


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try first to hold before camera handheld, or fix on an extension tube with tape. May not worth to make any effort, may wonderful option we never know.


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've looked for 3M lenses and found nothing, they are materials technology not optics. I think perhaps they are from some kind of copy machine...


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
But they are not marked with reproduction ratio, but enlarging power, so it is some kind of projected image.
The turret seems manually operated.

Handheld in front of a 5DmkII it is wonderful. But they are all closed to F/4 or f/5.6
I'll try to get a diafragm out show you guys some images.


PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
coisasdavida wrote:
But they are not marked with reproduction ratio, but enlarging power, so it is some kind of projected image.
The turret seems manually operated.
.


Yes, I can see but I'm thinking more along the lines of some kind of enlarger device.


PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I searched this: projector "78-8000"

I ended up on a website called Aerobase, they claim they sell parts. Searching again within their catalog I found a bunch of similar part numbers, all associated with Michofiche Kits.

The closest I got was: http://aerobasegroup.com/nsn/6730-01-113-6089/PLATEN+ASSEMBLY%2CFILM

It reads 3M Reader Printer. Searching that yielded some e*ay hits of lenses resembling the ones I got. So it is safe to say it belongs to a big microfiche reader.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a set of these, they are from 3M industrial machines.

I say had because I threw them away. I tried them out on bellows for macro work and the results were poor, contrasty but soft. I imagine if you remove the diaphragm they will be really soft.


PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
But according to my math, they should be optimized to work at a 1.5~2.5 meter range.


PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I shot them at between 5m and 0.2m, were really soft at all distances inbetween and had a specular glow on highlights.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have some microfilm lenses (Ilex, Olympus, Minolta) and those work good.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I had a set of these, they are from 3M industrial machines.

I say had because I threw them away. I tried them out on bellows for macro work and the results were poor, contrasty but soft. I imagine if you remove the diaphragm they will be really soft.


Too bad because they can be very useful macro lenses. You just didn't think through what they were meant to do.

Microfiche lenses are projection lenses and in principle much like normal camera lenses, cinema lenses or even enlarger lenses. They operate best when used as intended. That is, with one side focused not much off infinity and nearly all the light bending in the film direction. The only difference is they were intended to be used with very small areas of film. The same sort of area required for a low powered photomacroscope lens.

So, one side is perfect for small bugs but the other side focuses more or less at infinity - or more accurately at a distance where the projection is about the size of an A3 page. Rather larger than the sensor on a camera.

So what to do? Easy. Take another lens. 80mm might be a good first choice. Preferably an enlarger because they don't vignette too easily. Mount it on your camera so that it focuses at infinity. Then reverse mount the microfiche lens onto it. Now the light is sharply converging on both sides.

Magnification will be a bit hit and miss but the trick is to use a focal length for camera lens that just about delivers even sharpness and freedom from vignetting over most of the picture.

A rough guess as to the intended field of view can be found by dividing the dimensions of an A3 sheet of paper by the magnification on the lens. That is divide the magnification by 11 (FF) or 17 (APS-c) and you probably won't be too far off what you should be aiming for. If vignetting stops you getting close first try jamming the two lenses together as close as possible. Then make sure the camera side is wide open. On the whole the shorter and smaller the camera side lens the less bad the vignetting.

Last edited by blame on Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:15 am; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome "blame" to the forum,Informative first post,thanks. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
Welcome "blame" to the forum,Informative first post,thanks. Smile


Glad you liked it. I really came here to research Projector lenses. I have just fitted an ISCO ULTRA 125/2.0 onto my FF Sony a900 and I am rather pleased with the results.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have looked at buying projector lenses but do not have enough knowledge to understand how they work or what is the better lenses to buy.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't really know enough myself. For adapting to a camera there are a lot of problems.

The most obvious seem to be:

1) No iris. You can back mount one or a simple stop but it won't be in the right place and that should have some effect on image quality.
2) No focus. Again you can back mount a helicoid but the cost is significant.
3) Back focus distance is likely to be too short to fit the above between lens and camera. It will be a lot shorter than the lense's focal length.
4) No mounting threads.
5) Intended for mostly rather small film formats. 35mm movie film is actually a little smaller than APS-c.
6) A lot of those old lens were optimized for maximum brightness at the expense of resolution. They won't be very sharp.
7) Movie film is very slightly curved and a good lens is optimized for it. Digital sensors are flat so you have to expect focus distance in the corners to be a little off.

Now I started with a quality long focal length lens (125mm) with a realistic f/2 aperture intended for up to 70mm film. That just about gives me room for improvised adapters, a helicoid and a fixed stop between lens and camera but I wouldn't want to try adapting anything much shorter to my Sony a900.
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