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hk300
Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 1041 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: discussing on Carl Zeiss Jena lenses ... Red MC vs White MC |
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hk300 wrote:
i have noticed that this topic has been mentioned in the past, but i never read a firm statement about the differences between red MC and white MC.
Some people think that red MC is better than the white MC version, and therefore, it has a higher resale value.
Is this true?
also, how to read the serial no on a CZJ lens, assume CZJ 35 2.4, one has 23086, the other 74496 ... which is newer? I guess the higher no means newer?
Or, CZJ 135 3.5, i got one which is 4148 (electric) another one is 54379 (not electric), which is newer? _________________ No longer member , please don't try to contact to him |
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koji
Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 2106 Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Expire: 2012-12-27
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: |
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koji wrote:
Alex, the only thing I know about CZJ's serial numbers, they are not chronological.
This is my conclusion after having about 40 CZJ lenses.
I am sure that Klaus knows better.
Red MC was during communist era, and white MC was later??? just kidding! _________________ Our Home Page has 18,200 photos in 575 directories today.
Lenses: https://www.pbase.com/kkawakami/top_level_my_lenses |
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hk300
Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 1041 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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hk300 wrote:
koji wrote: |
Alex, the only thing I know about CZJ's serial numbers, they are not chronological.
This is my conclusion after having about 40 CZJ lenses.
I am sure that Klaus knows better.
Red MC was during communist era, and white MC was later??? just kidding! |
Koji ... thx for the input, i also got lost ... lol.
i remember someone telling me that for pentacon 50 1.8 ... red MC was before white mc.
I think ... when they started doing MC on lenses, they put RED MC on the lenses, to show to the customers, later, it became white MC, and now ... i never seen the letters MC on a Canon EF 300L lens ...
it is i think like with cars ...
initially everyone put like 4 cyl Golf 1.6, 1.6 16V, but now most 4 cyl engines are at least 16V _________________ No longer member , please don't try to contact to him |
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hexi
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1631 Location: France
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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hexi wrote:
koji wrote: |
Red MC was during communist era, and white MC was later??? just kidding! |
MC means Multi Communist . now you'll know the infamous truth
The red lettering is great on black , in fact i don't mind having white one, but its a thin g i don't look too much it's rather the lense itself. Its damn sharp rendering !
5 digits represent the newer series , mine is 46201 for instance.
this does not mean it was built in 1946 ^.^ |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
Fine, 5 digits = newer than 8 digits. What about 4 digits? Some CZJ MC lenses have it... _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
The Pentacon and the CZJ had the MC red before the white ones.
In the ZCJ (not in pentacon) I found the red MC better than the newer MC
white. Casuality? Don't know.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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hexi
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1631 Location: France
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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hexi wrote:
no-X wrote: |
What about 4 digits? |
Simple : one letter is missing |
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symphonic
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 550 Location: SE Europe, Croatia
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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symphonic wrote:
I've been reading a lot of topics on Jena lenses lately. I have a short question so I'll post here instead of creating a special thread for it, hope you don't mind.
I'm interested in whether the Carl Zeiss Jena lenses (m42 and P6) were considered as "premium" lenses in 1950s - 90s? I know that they aren't valued so much as the West Germany CZ today, but what was their price back in the days? Today most of them can be found for really cheap, were they that cheap when they were sold new? (relatively speaking of course, I know the same amount of money today isn't nowhere near the value in the 60s, 70s and so on). Maybe the answer is in the fact that they were much more mass produced then the West Germany lenses (for instance, I don't know if it's correct, but I read somewhere that Sonnar 135mm 3.5 was produced in over 4mil copies, so of course that fact has an effect on today's prices). _________________ Toni,
EOS 450D
CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 MC | Pancolar 50/1.8 MC
Contax Planar 50/1.4 AEJ | Contax Sonnar 135/2.8 AEJ
Yashica ML 28/2.8 | Zuiko 28/3.5
Vivitar Series1 105/2.5 OM
AF: Tokina 12-24 |
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 1633 Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
After 10.000000 they started again, so a 4 digit lens is older than a 5 digit one.
Klaus _________________ my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
hk300 wrote: |
i never seen the letters MC on a Canon EF 300L lens... |
Canon have always had their own coating formula and the first version was called Spectra Coating, indicated by S.C. They improved it later and named it Super Spectra Coating (S.S.C.). These abbreviations you can see on Canon FD lenses. With the "New FD" line, they stopped using it because all their lenses used the same multicoating, which is also true for all Canon EF lenses that were ever released. Canon must have made improvements to their coatings, but they have never indicated it on their lenses and AFAIK only advertised with it with the new "Sub Wavelength Coating" (equivalent of Nikon's Nanocrystal coating) they use on the recently updated 24L II, TS-E 24L II, and TS-E 17L. |
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symphonic
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 550 Location: SE Europe, Croatia
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
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symphonic wrote:
No one remembers the price for CZJ lenses when they were released? For example, a Sonnar 135/3.5, Flektogon 35/2.4 etc? _________________ Toni,
EOS 450D
CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 MC | Pancolar 50/1.8 MC
Contax Planar 50/1.4 AEJ | Contax Sonnar 135/2.8 AEJ
Yashica ML 28/2.8 | Zuiko 28/3.5
Vivitar Series1 105/2.5 OM
AF: Tokina 12-24 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Toni, if this helps at all, I bought a second hand Praktica in 1967 which had a Meyer Domiplan lens. I remember that the same camera could be bought new with two other lens options, the CZJ Tessar 2.8/50 and the CZJ Pancolar 1.8/50, both were beyond my budget as a 20 year-old. At that time the Tessar I think was about £10 more expensive than the Domi, I don't remember the Pancolar. So compared to the popular Japanese brands these lenses weren't expensive, even though the optical quality was about equal or better in some cases. A bit like the Russian lenses. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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symphonic
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 550 Location: SE Europe, Croatia
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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symphonic wrote:
Thank you Peter, any info is great! It's not that important at all, but I'm just curious to find out more on their original prices, to put them in perspective with today's prices. Most CZJ lenses are real gems. _________________ Toni,
EOS 450D
CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 MC | Pancolar 50/1.8 MC
Contax Planar 50/1.4 AEJ | Contax Sonnar 135/2.8 AEJ
Yashica ML 28/2.8 | Zuiko 28/3.5
Vivitar Series1 105/2.5 OM
AF: Tokina 12-24 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
symphonic wrote: |
Thank you Peter, any info is great! It's not that important at all, but I'm just curious to find out more on their original prices, to put them in perspective with today's prices. Most CZJ lenses are real gems. |
The optical designs were superb, based on the long Zeiss experience and knowledge. What lets them down is the inconsistency (basically the quality control) and the design of the non-optical parts of the lenses, the main problem being sticky aperture blades and lens rings working loose. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Krisgage
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 681 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Krisgage wrote:
Hi, I read on Wikipedia, " West German Zeiss products were labelled Opton for sale in the Eastern bloc, while East German Zeiss products where labelled "Zeiss Jena" for sale in Western countries " , I just wonder if Opton lenses are of good quality or just lemon ? _________________ Photos and Lenses Journal
http://krisgage.livejournal.com |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Krisgage wrote: |
Hi, I read on Wikipedia, " West German Zeiss products were labelled Opton for sale in the Eastern bloc, while East German Zeiss products where labelled "Zeiss Jena" for sale in Western countries " , I just wonder if Opton lenses are of good quality or just lemon ? |
Anything what made in Carl Zeiss factories just good, Opton lenses are best one and most expensive ones from all and I doubt about they are sold in Eastern block. Above paragraph from Wiki is complete bullshit. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Krisgage
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 681 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Krisgage wrote:
Attila wrote: |
Krisgage wrote: |
Hi, I read on Wikipedia, " West German Zeiss products were labelled Opton for sale in the Eastern bloc, while East German Zeiss products where labelled "Zeiss Jena" for sale in Western countries " , I just wonder if Opton lenses are of good quality or just lemon ? |
Anything what made in Carl Zeiss factories just good, Opton lenses are best one and most expensive ones from all and I doubt about they are sold in Eastern block. Above paragraph from Wiki is complete bullshit. |
Ok thanks. I did a search on Ebay, it seems the lenses are for Contax RF, Is there any for SLR ? Do you own one ? I am curious about the lens image quality. _________________ Photos and Lenses Journal
http://krisgage.livejournal.com |
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Phenix jc
Joined: 19 Dec 2009 Posts: 398 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Phenix jc wrote:
FYI I've seen the Rollei QBM HFT 85/1.4 sold as Opton and not Planar _________________ "Plonger les choses dans la lumière, c'est les plonger dans l'infini" Léonard De Vinci
f/1.2 club Zuiko : 50/1.2, 55/1.2 Rokkor : 50/1.2, 58/1.2 Nikkor : 50/1.2, 55/1.2 Third Party : Porst(Fujinon-X) 50/1.2, Porst 55/1.2 Canon : S 50/1.2, nFD 50/1.2, FL 55/1.2, R 58/1.2, nFD 85/1.2 Hexanon : 57/1.2 Nokton : 50/1.1 |
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Krisgage
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 681 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Krisgage wrote:
Oic ! Thanks for sharing Phenix _________________ Photos and Lenses Journal
http://krisgage.livejournal.com |
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