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stonedes
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 27
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:28 am Post subject: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/4? |
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stonedes wrote:
Hello all,
I have an opportunity to buy one of these lenses, a nice looking silver one, for $90. Looks kuje 59xx serial #, so made in 1959.
As I already have a Super Tak 135/3.5 and Komine-made Vivitar 135/2.8(which I like), will I see much difference or is it a poor value for what I would get in return?
I haven't been able to find much info on the f/4. Maybe not as good as the 3.5? It does look nice in silver though I will say that! |
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mflex-on
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: |
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mflex-on wrote:
I have two 4/135 Sonnars of Jena, one alloy, one with leatherette ring and auto diaphragm. I sold the third, an 3.5/135 MC.
Both 4/135 have an excellent resolution power. The silver alloy has 8 aperture blades and a preset aperture. And that is why it is perfect for digital use: near perfect round bokeh highlights and the preset aperture mechanism.
Last edited by mflex-on on Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Lovely lens - better than the 3.5 IMHO
patrickh
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DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/4? |
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aoleg wrote:
| stonedes wrote: |
| I haven't been able to find much info on the f/4. Maybe not as good as the 3.5? It does look nice in silver though I will say that! |
It's an old, slow 135mm. Single-coated. $90 is about 80% collector value. If you want an upgrade from your Takumar, try Contax Sonnar 135/2.8 (can be had for as little as $130-140), which is arguably the best 135mm around, let alone the best for the money. Or if you are after sharpness at all apertures, Nikkor Ai and AIS 135/3.5 are great ones.
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mflex-on
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/4? |
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mflex-on wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| $90 is about 80% collector value. |
So you argue that the real, the "working" worth of an old Sonnar is around 12 EUR? This is joking, I think. |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
If the 135/4 Sonnar is at least as good as its copy - Jupiter-11 - then it could be better than the Takumar. But Jupiter costs 1/2 or 1/3 price... 
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/4? |
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aoleg wrote:
| mflex-on wrote: |
| aoleg wrote: |
| $90 is about 80% collector value. |
So you argue that the real, the "working" worth of an old Sonnar is around 12 EUR? This is joking, I think. |
Uhm, you see, I am used to paying $10-12 for no-name 135mm f/3.5 lenses. Trust me, most perform just like this Sonnar (it's hard to make a bad 135/3.5), and quite a few are better. So yes, if the lens was not wearing the famous "Zeiss" badge and would be named, say, "Asacuma", it would be worth just that - $10-12 at best. However, it DOES wear the famous badge, so its resale value is bound to remain quite high.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/4? |
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Excalibur wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| mflex-on wrote: |
| aoleg wrote: |
| $90 is about 80% collector value. |
So you argue that the real, the "working" worth of an old Sonnar is around 12 EUR? This is joking, I think. |
Uhm, you see, I am used to paying $10-12 for no-name 135mm f/3.5 lenses. Trust me, most perform just like this Sonnar (it's hard to make a bad 135/3.5), and quite a few are better. So yes, if the lens was not wearing the famous "Zeiss" badge and would be named, say, "Asacuma", it would be worth just that - $10-12 at best. However, it DOES wear the famous badge, so its resale value is bound to remain quite high. |
....it's amazing what you can achieve with cheap gems, esp in the hands of a competent photographer.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
My experience is pretty similar 135mm lenses are very close to each other. A noname Japanese for 10 USD can be very close or same than a Carl Zeiss Sonnar no matter Jena or Contax. This is not means 12 USD is their right value. Personally I not like to shoot with noname lenses even if their image quality is good. Some people can make exceptional shoots basically with any lenses some others don't. Photographer, lights , subjects lot more important than lens or camera. We are in lucky period we can buy any type of gears at any price levels and all just working fine even cheapest ones.
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Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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MF-addicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 803
Location: Stuttgart (Germany)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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MF-addicted wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
| We are in lucky period we can buy any type of gears at any price levels and all just working fine even cheapest ones. |
+1
... a better typewriter does not make a better writer 
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EOS 5D MK II, EOS 5D Classic, EOS 400D --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Canon FD to EOS converted: FD 1,4/24 asph, FD 2,8/300 L
Carl Zeiss Jena:Pancolar 2/50, black Biotar 2/5,8cm 17bl., slim Biotar 1,5/7,5cm 18bl., Pancolar 1,8/80mm, Sonnar 3,5/135, Triotar 4/135
Carl Zeiss: Distagon 4/18T*, Distagon 1,4/35 HFT, Planar 1,4/50 T*, Vario-Sonnar 3,4/35-70 T*,Vario-Sonnar 4,5-5,6/100-300 T*
Leitz: Elmarit-R 2.8/28 E55 II, Summicron-R 35 I, Elmarit-R Wetzlar 2.8/35 E55 II, Summicron-R 2/50 Wetzlar I, Macro Elmarit-R 2.8/60 I, Summicron-R 2/90 E55 I, Elmarit-R 2,8/90 I, Elmarit-R Wetzlar 2,8/135 I, Elmarit-R 2.8/180 Wetzlar E67 II, Vario Elmar 4/70-210 E60, MR Telyt-R 8/500
Schneider: Xenar 2.8/50
Russian: Industar 50-2, Industar 61,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm, MC 3M-5CA 8/500
Meyer: Pentacon 3,5/30, Domiplan 2,8/50, Trioplan 2,9/50, Trioplan 3,5/75, Trioplan 2,8/100, Orestor 2,8/135mm, Orestegon 4/200
ISCO: Westron 2,8/35, Westron 3,5/35, Tele-Westanar 3,5/135, Tele-Westanar 4/180
Yashica: ML 15, ML 21, ML 24, ML 28, ML 35, ML 100/3.5 Macro,
Nikon: Nikkor AI 2,0/24, Nikkor AIS 2,0/28, Nikkor Ai 1,8/50, Nikkor-P (Sonnar) 2,5/105 silver, Nikkor-P (Gauss) 2,5/105 black
Steinheil Cassar 3,5-4,5/75 VL, Quinar 3,5/85, Culminar 4,5/105, Culminar 4,5/135, Auto-D Tele Quinar 2,8/135
Tomioka Tomioka - Cosinon 1,2/55, Tomioka - Revuenon 1,4/55
Voigtländer: Septon 2/50
Others: Officine Galileo Ingra 3,5/5cm, Wilon 4,5/75, Dallmeyer 4,5/4", Bonotar 4,5/105,
Lenses for sale, please contact via PM: None at the moment
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
Well, I must say, that I have never found a 135mm MF lens, which would be at least as sharp as these Sonnars/Jupiters while having lower CA, or at least as low CA while being sharper.
Fine - there's one exception - 125/2.5 Macro Lanthar, but that's different price range.
I agree, that many 135mm lenses are good. But I have never found any single one, which is as sharp as the Sonnars/Jupiters at f/3.5-f/4.
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mflex-on
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: |
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mflex-on wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
Well, I must say, that I have never found a 135mm MF lens, which would be at least as sharp as these Sonnars/Jupiters while having lower CA, or at least as low CA while being sharper.
Fine - there's one exception - 125/2.5 Macro Lanthar, but that's different price range.
I agree, that many 135mm lenses are good. But I have never found any single one, which is as sharp as the Sonnars/Jupiters at f/3.5-f/4. |
Exactly my experience, besides all Zuikos, Takumars, Vivitars and cheaper ones the Sonnar is equal or even much better, This is not a 12 EUR lens.
Last edited by mflex-on on Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
Well, I must say, that I have never found a 135mm MF lens, which would be at least as sharp as these Sonnars/Jupiters while having lower CA, or at least as low CA while being sharper.
Fine - there's one exception - 125/2.5 Macro Lanthar, but that's different price range.
I agree, that many 135mm lenses are good. But I have never found any single one, which is as sharp as the Sonnars/Jupiters at f/3.5-f/4. |
Olympus OM 135mm f2.8, Leica 135mm f2.8, Steinheil 135mm f2.8 , Yashica DSB 135mm f2.8 ... there is plenty in my opinion what is sharp like Sonnar 135mm
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 6622
Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
From my experience, no-name 135mm lenses can be very sharp and useful indeed. Take for example the Japanese Helios 135/2.8 and Auto Chinon 135/2.8, which give very nice results.
However, certain lenses have real character and produce images which just have something extra, for example the Pentacon pre-set has that gorgeous bokeh and the Carl Zeiss Jena 135/3.5 produces some wonderful stand out 3D. Which is why I swear by the Sonnar and Pentacon models The Jupiter 11 is also a superb lens IMO.
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Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
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stonedes
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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stonedes wrote:
Hello all, and thank you for all the input!
I have considered a Jupiter 11 because they are a copy of the Sonnar but I've read that getting a good copy can present a challenge because of the quality control.
And it is a great time we live in, with all the affordable quality lenses available now, although the prices are on the rise because its easy to use these leness on digital.
A great example is my 8 blade Komine-made Vivitar 135/2.8 from 1971. I am learning to love this lens I found for $7. I am curious about the Zeiss look, but maybe I won't notice the difference.
It appears that those of you who have used both the 3.5 and 4 Sonnars, that the 4 may actually be preferable for digital. Interesting! |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
Variable quality doesn't pertain to all CCCP lenses. In some constructions there is higher possibility of things going wrong.
The most variable CCCP lens is Jupiter-9 85/2. It consists of 7 optical elements, where every 3 are cemented to a group. 7 elements = 14 surfaces = possibility of 14 errors. 4 cemented surfaces = 4 more possibilities of inaccuracy.
On the other hand Jupiter-11 135/4 and Jupiter-37 135/3.5 consist of 4 optical elements and only two of them are cemented together. In fact I have never had a bad copy of 135mm Jupiter. Try it, you should be happy with it
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
| In fact I have never had a bad copy of 135mm Jupiter. Try it, you should be happy with it |
I do. It was brand new in box with all accessories, the latest MC version. What would you think? Unsharp on the right side even on crop bodies... probably a centering issue. I still have it BTW. I also have an older one (also MC, but the front element seems completely uncoated), and that one is just as sharp as Jupiter-37 should be.
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
I had more than six of them and all of them were good. Isn't it possible, than some of the lens elements is loosy?
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
| I had more than six of them and all of them were good. Isn't it possible, than some of the lens elements is loosy? |
+1
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
| I had more than six of them and all of them were good. Isn't it possible, than some of the lens elements is loosy? |
It might be. I haven't disassembled mine yet. I'll try just disassembling and putting it back together to see if it gets better some day. If not, it might be the cemented group, which would be the end of it.
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stonedes
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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stonedes wrote:
I looked at the Jupiter 11a's on Ebay and they were in the $70 range. I ended up buying the silver Sonnar.
Thanks again for all your help! |
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