View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Pentax lenses are not as good as their Zeiss equivalents, that's why I expect the Distagon to be better. I mean, the Pentax-M 1.7/50 is a good lens but it's not as good as the Planar T* 1.7/50, etc etc. |
Is the lens you mention the SAME optical design, because if it is I seriously doubt there would be significant performance difference as back in the 70's pentax had excellent mfg and quality control, better than today or the later m series lenses. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It doesn't matter whether it is the same optical design, they are equivalent lenses, both are double gauss type 1.7/50s. Give me an example of a Pentax lens that outperforms it's Zeiss T* counterpart? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it is the same optical design, they are equivalent lenses, both are double gauss type 1.7/50s. Give me an example of a Pentax lens that outperforms it's Zeiss T* counterpart? |
Being the same optical design and same "type" is not the same thing. Besides the 15mm in question, I dont know of any other zeiss and pentax lenses with the same exact optical design. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You're missing my point, name me a Pentax lens that is optically superior to a Zeiss T* lens in the same focal length. It's immaterial whether they are the same design or not. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
You're missing my point, name me a Pentax lens that is optically superior to a Zeiss T* lens in the same focal length. It's immaterial whether they are the same design or not. |
I have NOT personally tested any pentax vs zeiss T* so I cant comment but I do know my very best pentax lenses are superb when compared to some other brands I have tried. Some of these include the K18mm f3.5, the 28/3.5, 35/3.5, 85/1.8 135/2.5 300*/4. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Sure, Pentax lenses are good ones and sharp, but I am pretty sure Zeiss T* are better. I sold all my Pentax-M lenses, they were good but not as good as Konica, Minolta or Zeiss DDR imho. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Sure, Pentax lenses are good ones and sharp, but I am pretty sure Zeiss T* are better. I sold all my Pentax-M lenses, they were good but not as good as Konica, Minolta or Zeiss DDR imho. |
I agree pentax M SERIES lenses are not that great, pentax downgraded them to save cost and make them small. The lenses I mentioned were the earlier more expensive smc pentax K SERIES lenses which are both opticallly and mechanically better than the m series. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10965 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
hifisapi wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it is the same optical design, they are equivalent lenses, both are double gauss type 1.7/50s. Give me an example of a Pentax lens that outperforms it's Zeiss T* counterpart? |
Being the same optical design and same "type" is not the same thing. Besides the 15mm in question, I dont know of any other zeiss and pentax lenses with the same exact optical design. |
"Lens formula" and "Optical Design" and "Optical Type" are equivalents (in this discussion). Two lenses may have the same of each, but use glass with different index of refraction, which requires tweaking of curvatures and spacings for optimization. Which manufacturer was more skilled or artful or just plain lucky will have the better IQ. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
hifisapi wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it is the same optical design, they are equivalent lenses, both are double gauss type 1.7/50s. Give me an example of a Pentax lens that outperforms it's Zeiss T* counterpart? |
Being the same optical design and same "type" is not the same thing. Besides the 15mm in question, I dont know of any other zeiss and pentax lenses with the same exact optical design. |
"Lens formula" and "Optical Design" and "Optical Type" are equivalents (in this discussion). Two lenses may have the same of each, but use glass with different index of refraction, which requires tweaking of curvatures and spacings for optimization. Which manufacturer was more skilled or artful or just plain lucky will have the better IQ. |
If a lens uses different index of refraction and different curvatures and different spacings and different coatings then its NOT the same optical design and direct comparisons of the mfgr and quality control are not possible. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Of course comparisons are possible, to say otherwise is wrong, just take a look at all the comparisons of lenses of the same focal length on this site. Konica also downgraded the quality in the 1980s, the 1.8/50 is a cheaper replacement for the 1.7/50, the 1.7 is the better lens but the 1.8 is sharp even wide open. Both are better than the Pentax-M 1.7/50 I had. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10965 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
hifisapi wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
hifisapi wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it is the same optical design, they are equivalent lenses, both are double gauss type 1.7/50s. Give me an example of a Pentax lens that outperforms it's Zeiss T* counterpart? |
Being the same optical design and same "type" is not the same thing. Besides the 15mm in question, I dont know of any other zeiss and pentax lenses with the same exact optical design. |
"Lens formula" and "Optical Design" and "Optical Type" are equivalents (in this discussion). Two lenses may have the same of each, but use glass with different index of refraction, which requires tweaking of curvatures and spacings for optimization. Which manufacturer was more skilled or artful or just plain lucky will have the better IQ. |
If a lens uses different index of refraction and different curvatures and different spacings and different coatings then its NOT the same optical design and direct comparisons of the mfgr and quality control are not possible. |
That's a distinction you alone are making here. Technically you may be correct, however, here we are speaking more generally -- here the lenses' optical formulas, optical designs, and optical types can be the same, yet have different numbers plugged into the optical formula for the given design & type, to adjust for different glass. You are making the distinction that plugging different numbers into the formula constitutes a new formula. There is of course, a different result, but not a different formula. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Of course comparisons are possible, to say otherwise is wrong, just take a look at all the comparisons of lenses of the same focal length on this site. Konica also downgraded the quality in the 1980s, the 1.8/50 is a cheaper replacement for the 1.7/50, the 1.7 is the better lens but the 1.8 is sharp even wide open. Both are better than the Pentax-M 1.7/50 I had. |
The pentax m 50mm f1.7 is a cheapo lens they gave away with low end bodies, it says nothing about the high end lenses in the smc k series that sold for big bucks and are high performance. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
hifisapi wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
hifisapi wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
It doesn't matter whether it is the same optical design, they are equivalent lenses, both are double gauss type 1.7/50s. Give me an example of a Pentax lens that outperforms it's Zeiss T* counterpart? |
Being the same optical design and same "type" is not the same thing. Besides the 15mm in question, I dont know of any other zeiss and pentax lenses with the same exact optical design. |
"Lens formula" and "Optical Design" and "Optical Type" are equivalents (in this discussion). Two lenses may have the same of each, but use glass with different index of refraction, which requires tweaking of curvatures and spacings for optimization. Which manufacturer was more skilled or artful or just plain lucky will have the better IQ. |
If a lens uses different index of refraction and different curvatures and different spacings and different coatings then its NOT the same optical design and direct comparisons of the mfgr and quality control are not possible. |
That's a distinction you alone are making here. Technically you may be correct, however, here we are speaking more generally -- here the lenses' optical formulas, optical designs, and optical types can be the same, yet have different numbers plugged into the optical formula for the given design & type, to adjust for different glass. You are making the distinction that plugging different numbers into the formula constitutes a new formula. There is of course, a different result, but not a different formula. |
You are not putting this into context. The earlier post claimed that if the 15mm was made by zeiss it would be much better than if made by pentax which I dont agree ASSUMING they are the same design. And in that context by design I meant same glass, same curvatures, same spacings, etc. Coatings would be different in the early 70's when these lenses came out and pentax would be superior to zeiss at that time as pentax was world leader in multicoatings having invented them in the early 70's with smc which was patented. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
hifisapi wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Of course comparisons are possible, to say otherwise is wrong, just take a look at all the comparisons of lenses of the same focal length on this site. Konica also downgraded the quality in the 1980s, the 1.8/50 is a cheaper replacement for the 1.7/50, the 1.7 is the better lens but the 1.8 is sharp even wide open. Both are better than the Pentax-M 1.7/50 I had. |
The pentax m 50mm f1.7 is a cheapo lens they gave away with low end bodies, it says nothing about the high end lenses in the smc k series that sold for big bucks and are high performance. |
Jeez, arguing with a fanboy sure is tedious. I still am sure K series lenses aren't as good as Zeiss T*, but of course, being a fanboy, you won't agree. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
hifisapi wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Of course comparisons are possible, to say otherwise is wrong, just take a look at all the comparisons of lenses of the same focal length on this site. Konica also downgraded the quality in the 1980s, the 1.8/50 is a cheaper replacement for the 1.7/50, the 1.7 is the better lens but the 1.8 is sharp even wide open. Both are better than the Pentax-M 1.7/50 I had. |
The pentax m 50mm f1.7 is a cheapo lens they gave away with low end bodies, it says nothing about the high end lenses in the smc k series that sold for big bucks and are high performance. |
Jeez, arguing with a fanboy sure is tedious. I still am sure K series lenses aren't as good as Zeiss T*, but of course, being a fanboy, you won't agree. |
Well which ones in particular did you do testing comparisons with. the smc - m 50mm f1.7??? lol _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
propellor
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 Posts: 205 Location: Amsterdam
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
propellor wrote:
_________________ Distagon 3.5/15, Distagon 4/18, Distagon 2.8/21, Distagon 2.8/25, Distagon 2/28, Distagon 1.4/35, Planar 1.4/50, Planar 1.4/85, Makro Planar 2.8/100, Planar 2/135, Vario Sonnar 3,3-4,0/28-85, Vario Sonnar 4,5-5,6/100-300, Canon 5DMkII |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
peterqd wrote:
+
It may have escaped attention here so far, but Zeiss and Pentax collaborated and shared their knowledge on glass technology and lens design for quite some time I believe. There is a strong similarity between them in many ways. Someone will no doubt correct me, because I know very little, but I believe this is one reason, if not the only one, why Pentax adopted the M42 mount and register distance way back when. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
No they originally used their own M37 mount then switched to M42. The co-operation with Zeiss led to the PK mount. Interestingly, the Contax/Yashica mount is almost identical. The Pentacon bayonet mount is very similar too, just has slightly thicker lugs and a slightly shorter register. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
+
It may have escaped attention here so far, but Zeiss and Pentax collaborated and shared their knowledge on glass technology and lens design for quite some time I believe. There is a strong similarity between them in many ways. Someone will no doubt correct me, because I know very little, but I believe this is one reason, if not the only one, why Pentax adopted the M42 mount and register distance way back when. |
AFAIK, only two pentax lenses were collaborated on by zeiss and pentax, the 15mm/3.5 and the 28mm/2.0. Pentax adopted the m42 mount because it was already popular at the time in the late 1950's. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Posts: 941 Location: USA
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
No they originally used their own M37 mount then switched to M42. The co-operation with Zeiss led to the PK mount. Interestingly, the Contax/Yashica mount is almost identical. The Pentacon bayonet mount is very similar too, just has slightly thicker lugs and a slightly shorter register. |
I dont think zeiss had anything to do with the development of the pk mount as its same registration as m42, pentax's previous mount, and zeiss went another way with the contax bayonet mount. _________________ ===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You're wrong, PK and C/Y are virtually identical, Zeiss started working with Yashica in 1975 and they worked with Pentax for about a year before that, the PK mount was one result of that collaboration. I thought this was common knowledge among Pentaxians.
M42 was designed by Zeiss too, it first appeared on the Contax SLR after ww2, Pentax just copied it. M42, PK and C/Y all have the same register because they are all Zeiss designs.
The PK and C/Y mounts are so similar a C/Y rear lens cap will fit a PK lens or vice-versa. People have even made slight modifications to Pentax DSLRs so they will accept C/Y lenses. Why? Because the Zeiss T* glass is better than the Pentax glass. Zeiss designed the K mount, and Pentax also got the Glatzel design for the 2/28 Distagon too.
Marco Cavina has an in-depth article on that lens which covers the technology exchange between Zeiss and Pentax:
http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Pentax_28_2_M/00_pag.htm _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Attila wrote:
In my experience all T* Contax glasses are above Nikon, Pentax, Konica, Leica . I don't know any other manufacturer who has same stable quality top of line series than Zeiss Contax all other makers has some lens what reach Contax level for sure, but those are rather an exception. Usually Contax has better contrast,microcontrast details etc. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fabian
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 254
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fabian wrote:
Zeiss fanboys!
( ) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
poilu wrote:
Fabian wrote: |
Zeiss fanboys!
( ) |
+1 _________________ T* |
|
Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
LOL
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|