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Leica mount help
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Leica mount help Reply with quote
I have seen the following lens advertised:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350247398180&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Apparently it will provide 18:1 Macro capability on a bellows, now i'm very new to MF lenses and Macro, so i'm after information as to whether it will mount to my Leica R 16860 Bellows?

The picture looks nothing like an R mount, but the description mentions R bellows, very confusing Embarassed

Any input will be gratefully accepted.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Leica mount help Reply with quote
rpo83 wrote:
I have seen the following lens advertised:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350247398180&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Apparently it will provide 18:1 Macro capability on a bellows, now i'm very new to MF lenses and Macro, so i'm after information as to whether it will mount to my Leica R 16860 Bellows?

The picture looks nothing like an R mount, but the description mentions R bellows, very confusing Embarassed

Any input will be gratefully accepted.


Hello,

in adittion to the photar you need an adapter for using the photar lenses on Leica R System.

Order Number from Leitz is.. 14259 for use on a Leica "Balgeneinstellgerät" BR2. Dont know which kind of bellows you have..
Ask the seller for the correct mount.

Hope this will help..

greetz
Hinnerker


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is a bad image from the photars and the adapter...
Its taken from an old Leica book..

outer left corner, there is the adapter..



Greetz
Hinnerker


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Leica mount help Reply with quote
rpo83 wrote:
I have seen the following lens advertised:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350247398180&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Apparently it will provide 18:1 Macro capability on a bellows, now i'm very new to MF lenses and Macro, so i'm after information as to whether it will mount to my Leica R 16860 Bellows?

The picture looks nothing like an R mount, but the description mentions R bellows, very confusing Embarassed

Any input will be gratefully accepted.


You might get that lens with a bit of searching for a better price. This seller is wellknown for really high prices.

Klaus


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Hinnerker and Klaus, i am just putting in the leg work at the moment, and trying to get my head around all the options.

I wont buy any Photar lens until i can verify it will fit my bellows. I only see references to BR2 bellows and not my #16860 version. However i assume that a R mount, is an R mount.... yes???

I have searched for the adapter you kindly referenced Hinnerker, wow it is expensive for an adapter!!!!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rpo83 wrote:
... However i assume that a R mount, is an R mount.... yes???

I have searched for the adapter you kindly referenced Hinnerker, wow it is expensive for an adapter!!!!


Yes, R-Mount is an R-Mount. You need the adapter for any bellows with LEICA R Mount.

Otherwise 0,8" x 1/36" srewmount will fit also.. maybe you have a friend who is able to build an adapter to fit for a regular M42 bellows. could be cheaper than the complete adapter for the photar.

greetz
Hinnerker


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The particular bellows they mention might have a R rear and RMS front - the bellows however is not part of the sale, and neither is any other RMS/R adapter.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rpo83 wrote:
Thank you Hinnerker and Klaus, i am just putting in the leg work at the moment, and trying to get my head around all the options.

I wont buy any Photar lens until i can verify it will fit my bellows. I only see references to BR2 bellows and not my #16860 version. However i assume that a R mount, is an R mount.... yes???

I have searched for the adapter you kindly referenced Hinnerker, wow it is expensive for an adapter!!!!


An adpter is pretty easy to make. Get a Leica R T2 adapter and ask a technican to add a plate with the matching screw mount of the photar. Or add a thread for the photar to a R-body cap.....

Klaus


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rpo83 wrote:
... i assume that a R mount, is an R mount.... yes???


Yes and no. There were small changes in 1974 and again in 1976 to allow for newer mirror clearance and metering specs. Basically the oldest lenses will fit any body or bellows, the latest lenses might not fit an old body or bellows. In most cases incompatibility can be resolved inexpensively.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wildlightphoto wrote:
rpo83 wrote:
... i assume that a R mount, is an R mount.... yes???


Yes and no. There were small changes in 1974 and again in 1976 to allow for newer mirror clearance and metering specs. Basically the oldest lenses will fit any body or bellows, the latest lenses might not fit an old body or bellows. In most cases incompatibility can be resolved inexpensively.


?????? What do you mean ???

The Leica R Mount its always the same.. only the couping elements are different to me in the different Era's.

The only differences the made on the mount is on the coupling elements for 1-,2- or 3-cam or Leica R Versions.

The 1 Cam Version did come with the first Leicaflex.. later on they changed to 2-cam for Leicaflex SL/SLmot/SL2.. then they changed the coupling elements to 3-cam as the new Leica R3 was introduced in the market. For higher R-Cams as the R6, R7, R8 and R9 Leica produced newer Lenses without control curves and marked this as LEICA R ONLY..
Older Lenses of 1or 2Cam where upgraded by Leica Solms by Order.

The dimensions of the R-Mount should be always the same...

I did own a lot of Leica Lenses of all era's as you see in my signatur..
1cam, 2cam, 3cam and Leica R Only. As far as i noticed, only this changes where made.

greetz
Hinnerker


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hinnerker wrote:
wildlightphoto wrote:
rpo83 wrote:
... i assume that a R mount, is an R mount.... yes???


Yes and no. There were small changes in 1974 and again in 1976 to allow for newer mirror clearance and metering specs. Basically the oldest lenses will fit any body or bellows, the latest lenses might not fit an old body or bellows. In most cases incompatibility can be resolved inexpensively.


?????? What do you mean ???

The Leica R Mount its always the same.. only the couping elements are different to me in the different Era's.


The SL2 has a slightly revised flange with one shorter tab than the Leicaflex and SL-model flange. This allows older lenses to fit perfectly and also allows lenses with the corresponding longer tab to fit the SL2 and not the Leicaflex and SL. This was done because the SL2's mirror box allows lenses to be used with Minolta mirror clearance specifications. If these lenses were used on a Leicaflex Standard or SL there would be interference problems, either with the mirror hitting the rear of the lens or the rear of the lens hitting mirror box light baffles. These lenses were originally all sourced from Minolta, but now the R clearance specification is the same.

The R bodies from the R3 onward have a flange with a slightly larger inside diameter and the corresponding lenses (3rd cam or ROM) have a raised shoulder that would interfere with the smaller Leicaflex-spec flange. All of the older Leicaflex lenses will fit on the R bodies but not all of the last R lenses will fit the Leicaflexes.

Here are a few combinations that will not work:

most 3rd-cam and all ROM lenses on any Leicaflex
APO-Extenders or 14256 extension tube on any Leicaflex
24mm Elmarit-R, 16mm Fisheye Elmarit-R and 80-200mm f/4.5 on the Leicaflex Standard or Leicaflex SL

I have worked out a few ways to resolve some of the incompatibilities, but it involves precision machine work and knowing what not to do.

For example: by trimming the inside diameter of the SL flange and adding the second metering cam to many ROM lenses, the lens will fit and work perfectly on the SL without removing the ROM contacts. This cannot be done with the Leicaflex Standard or SL2 because these cameras use the first cam, which was replaced with the ROM contacts. The camera bodies' cam follower would damage the ROM strip.

By replacing the camera-side flange of the 1.4x APO-Extender-R or 14256 extension tube with a Leicaflex-compatible flange, these will fit the Leicaflex Standard, SL, and SL2 with accurate stop-down metering on the SL and SL2.

By replacing the camera-side flange of the 2x APO-Extender-R with a Leicaflex-compatible flange this extender can be used on the Leicaflex SL2 with stop-down metering, but not on the Leicaflex Standard or SL because of mirror box clearance problems.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for you explanation for the changes on R-Mount, wildlightphoto..

I have never checked if the lenses are downwardly compatible, no need for that. I use my Leica and Angenieux stuff on my Canon 5D and my Leica R5. Most of the lenses i did use also on a Leicaflex SL.

The only lens i didnt use on my old Leicaflex SL was my Leica Summicron -LEICA R ONLY-. All other Lenses fits perfect.

Back in TOPIC ..I dont think the Photar adapters are problematical. Especially if you plan to use the Photars on a Leica Bellows. There is no mirror or something else that can disturb the Cam or the mount. As far as i know, the Photars are screw in to the adapter and you only can use them at manual working aperture..

Greetz
Hinnerker


PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steve,

This Photar lens has a RMS mount, a 0,8" x 1/36" screwmount. This is a standard microscope mount, and a number of other high magnification lenses use this mount as well, such as the Minolta Bellows Micro Rokkor 25mm and 12.5mm (made in cooperation with Leitz), some Zeiss Luminars and Nikon Macro Nikkors. Other adapters exist, such as RMS to M39 and M39 to Leica R, but these are not that easy to find.

If you're very new to macro, you may want to check whether such a setup is practical for you. The viewfinder will be very dimm and most importantly, the working distance - the distance between the lens and your subject - will be very short. As in 5mm at a magnification of 12:1. For a comparison of working distances, check:

http://www.eritja.com/angmenu.htm

under technics and equipment

Cheers,

Dick
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