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I want to go wider!!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:33 am    Post subject: I want to go wider!! Reply with quote
I am shooting a Canon 1.6x crop camera. My widest lens, which is actually pretty decent, is the Canon 18-55 IS lens. But with the crop factor, it is only a 29mm equivalent. So, I want the ability to occasionally shoot wider without spending $400+ for a AF Ultrawide like the Tokina 12-24, etc. Are there any MF options? I would even be willing to use film for this, but most 20 and 24mm primes are pretty expensive anyway. Do I have any options at all?


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wide I know is Zenitar 16mm 2.8, but she is fisheye. If you want 'straight' lens (no curve view of fisheye) it is expense, I think.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know of any crop-body lenses in the 10-12mm range that are cheaper than your $400 limit.

Even with film cameras, the good ultra wide angles are pricey. The Canon FD 17mm f/4 is a great optic, but uncommon, and usually sells in the $300+ price range. The Nikon 18mm f/3.5 is more common, but costs over twice what the Canon does. You might have better luck if you search for aftermarket brand superwides. I own an old Vivitar 17mm f/3.5 in Canon FD. It's a very sharp lens, but suffers from rather pronounced barrel distortion.

Tamron made a 17mm f/3.5 SP Adaptall II lens that seems to go for about the same as the Canon, but is more common. Sigma has made 18mm lenses in a variety of designs, and prices vary from reasonable to over $300, depending on design. Tokina has made a 17mm in both MF and AF (AT-X). The AF flavor AT-X usually sells in the mid-$200s (used). Vivitar made a 17-28 zoom for FF cameras. Don't know anything about it other than it sells for pretty cheap on eBay.

Michael


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you want to shoot film, you have some options in the 20mm range

Vivitar 19/3.8 made by Cosina usually sells for under $100
This seems to be the best of this type for the price actually

Soligor/Vivitar 21/3.8 T4 made by Tokina also sub-$100
Vivtar 20/3.8 made by Kiron ditto
Tamron 21/4.5 ditto, but rare

None are great, but they work.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
I don't know of any crop-body lenses in the 10-12mm range that are cheaper than your $400 limit.




Doesn't have to be 10-12. Maybe 15? Just hoping for noticeably wider than the 29mm equivalent I have now.

Don't want it to be soft, though. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get an APS-C UWA lens.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you were thinking of going film for special-occasion use of wides, there's the 20mm Flektogon (M42), though Fleks seem to be going for absurd prices these days. There's also the 21mm Yashica in CY bayonet, quite rare on the market, but a better lens than the Flek (I have both).

Both will mount on your EOS fit camera with an adapter. Although I use them mostly on my CY-mount SLRs, I've also mounted them easily on my Canon 10D and EOS 5/A2 using EOS-M42 and EOS-CY adapters.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are no options for an MF superwide that gives you on a crop-EOS a wider angle than about 28mm effectively, unless you go for a fisheye and defish the pictures.

You have three alternatives:

1. Buy a new superwide zoom, such as the Toki 12-24.
2. Buy a fullframe DSLR (EOS 5D) or
3. Use film for superwide shots.

Like it or not, that's the expensive truth. It annoys me as well!


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is the Samyang (Polar, Falcon, Vivitar 7mm (!), etc) 8mm although I don't know whether of not you can de-fish it easily. There are rumours of a Samyang 14 mm. If it appears, and if it is priced at the same level as the 85 mm and 8 mm, it will be very attractive at ~$300.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex wrote:
Fleks seem to be going for absurd prices these days


eBay search for completed items gives EUR 209 to EUR 284 for 20mm Flektogons. I haven't followed pricing for this lens but doesn't feel too high to me? People always pay more money for superwides. The Flek 4/20 I have performs to this aftermarket value. Better exist, but price is then four digits...


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Depend of the exigence level of your job.

I'm a hobbist, and for that my 4/20 flektogon with almost 0 distortion let my play and enjoy with it.

But for more serious activities, I don't know.

Good luck.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:

eBay search for completed items gives EUR 209 to EUR 284 for 20mm Flektogons. I haven't followed pricing for this lens but doesn't feel too high to me?

I bought my first Flek, a 4/20, about three years ago, on eBay. It cost me around GBP 80. About two years ago, I bought my 2.8/20 Flek, and paid GBP 75, photo dealer, a few months after missing a 2.8/20 Flek from the same dealer priced at GBP 68 (I was hours too late in telephoning). Shortly after, my 2.4/35 Flek cost me about GBP 30.

I'd missed a couple of 20mm Fleks on eBay at the time, but they were going for not much more than my max bids. To my mind, based on admittedly anecdotal personal experience, 20mm Fleks have trebled since then. The 2.4/35 is fetching up to four times what I paid, and my recollection is that I didn't pay under the odds for mine at the time. I keep an eye on these, simply because I use the current prices fetched to update my photo inventory spreadsheet for insurance purposes.

I like my Fleks, and won't part with them, but the 20mm Flek is outperformed by the Yashica 21mm ML, for which I paid GBP 175 around the same time I bought the 4/20. The Yashica, however, is rarer than the Flektogon. I've also noticed a surge in the price fetched by the Yashica 24mm, which is a superb lens.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is the sigma. 14mm f3.5.
It's rectalinear and performs quite well on a cropped camera giving a 21mm FOV.
Don't bother putting it on FF. The corners are uhuh !

I have one in CY mount that had not seen use since I got a 5d.
Anyone wants it send pm.

Tamron and Sigma both have AF versions of this lens as well.
Not to spendy either.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flektogon 20mm
Olympus OM 21mm
Tomioka 21mm f3.5
Voigtlander Color-Heliar 15mm f4.5 M39 RF
Flektogon 4/50 my favourite wides Medium format film.

Don't go with cheap ones if you want to get quality shoots.

Zenitar 16mm can be awesome and easy to correct fish with software.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
F16SUNSHINE wrote:
There is the sigma. 14mm f3.5.


Oh, I didn't know that there is a 14mm Sigma without AF. Thanks!


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:
alex wrote:
Fleks seem to be going for absurd prices these days


eBay search for completed items gives EUR 209 to EUR 284 for 20mm Flektogons. I haven't followed pricing for this lens but doesn't feel too high to me? People always pay more money for superwides. The Flek 4/20 I have performs to this aftermarket value. Better exist, but price is then four digits...


Yes it is prices is not high at all. Need to look lens quality and rarity how much another lens what performance is close to Flek. A Yashica ML 21mm these days more expensive than most FLek and lot more rare so not really an option.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
F16SUNSHINE wrote:
There is the sigma. 14mm f3.5.


Oh, I didn't know that there is a 14mm Sigma without AF. Thanks!


How about image quality most cheap modern wide lenses are produce plastic images like an entry level compact digital cam.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex wrote:
I bought my first Flek, a 4/20, about three years ago, on eBay. It cost me around GBP 80. About two years ago, I bought my 2.8/20 Flek, and paid GBP 75, photo dealer, a few months after missing a 2.8/20 Flek from the same dealer priced at GBP 68 (I was hours too late in telephoning).


Wow, that's what I call great deals!


PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:
alex wrote:
I bought my first Flek, a 4/20, about three years ago, on eBay. It cost me around GBP 80. About two years ago, I bought my 2.8/20 Flek, and paid GBP 75, photo dealer, a few months after missing a 2.8/20 Flek from the same dealer priced at GBP 68 (I was hours too late in telephoning).


Wow, that's what I call great deals!


Indeed! But talking about "great deals", I got my Flek 4/20 (which even is a special version for a former GDR film company) for €30,- plus shipping (€7,-)! Very Happy
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