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mikkokam
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 29 Location: Finland
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: DIY soft focus lens |
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mikkokam wrote:
I'm a great fan of the glowing results created by Vilva, Arkku and others by using a Kodak Vest Pocket meniscus lens with digital cameras.
Monocle lenses seemed to be another hack that produces glow (of different kind) - that I wanted to test for portraits. After some Google-time I found advice for building monocle lenses from Helios-44. But I like the Helios much too much to hack it. So, I selected the worst lens I had, a Pentacon 50/1.8 that had been battered badly at some point.
I disassembled the lens with tools and some violence (one of the elements seemed to be glued, so I broke it). The backmost element produced best result reversed. The front element gave a too long focal length and also gave an even softer image in the center. With the backmost element, the lens can focus from 0.6 m to beyond infinity, the frontmost required extension rings.
The results seem quite OK. The center is a bit sharper, sides dreamy. There is glow. Stopping down the lens adjusts the effect.
Need to test it for portraits still.
Result from 1st test shots:
More pictures at Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/mikkokam
Anyone else built monocles? What lenses did you use and did you leave the front or the back element in?
Mikko _________________ Latest pictures: http://www.flickr.com/mikkokam
Camera bodies: Leica M4-2 • Zenit-11 • Panasonic GF1
Lenses: Vivitar 17/3.5 • Pentax Cosmicar 25/1.4 • Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9 • Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4 • Voigtländer Nokton 40/1.4 • Yashinon DS-M 50/1.4 • Helios 44-3 MC 58/2 • Helios 44M-4 58/2 • Helios 40-2 85/1.5 • Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5 • Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 • DIY toy lenses 170/2.8 & 85/1.4 • DIY soft focus 50/1.8 • DIY tilt-shift lenses 75/3.5 & 75/4.5
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
The simplest to build would be to use a +10 closeup lens on extension rings or bellows. I have also tried +1, +2, and +3 closeup lenses stacked.
The results are soft indeed.
Alternately, you can try one of the 3x teleconverters with any SLR 50-55mm lens wide-open. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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FernandoB12
Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Posts: 231 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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FernandoB12 wrote:
Yes Luis,
There are a sample of Takumar 50mm 1.4 plus Soligor MC Tele converter 3X.
The same flower without the tele converter.
_________________ Camera: Nikon D80 Canon 20D Pentax Spotmatic
Manual Lens: Nikkor 24mm f/2.8; Nikkor Ai 50mm f/1.4; Nikkor 50mm f/2.0; Nikkor Micro AI 55mm f/3.5; Nikkor H 85mm f/1.8; Nikkor P.C 105mm f/2.5; Nikkor Q 135mm f/2.8; Nikkor P 180mm f/2.8; Nikon Series E 75~150mm f/3.5;
SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4; SMC Takumar 55mm f/1.8; Super Takumar 85mm f/1.9; Takumar S-M-C 120mm f/2.8; Takumar S-M-C 200mm f/4; Tele Takumar 300mm f/6.3
Vivitar Series 1 Macro 105mm 2.5
Helios M44-4 58mm f/2; Soligor 350mm f/5.6; Soligor 135mm f/2.8;
AF Lens: AF-S Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED; AF Nikkor 70-210mm f/4-5.6; |
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Screamin Scott
Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Posts: 1014 Location: Dallas, Georgia USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Screamin Scott wrote:
I've always used women's hose stretched over the front of the lens (white or black) _________________ Cameras-Nikon D300, D7100,D610,FE2,FTN ,FT2,N90s, Olympus Pen EP-3 & Olympus OM-D E-M10
Nikkor AF Zooms=28-105/3.5D,28-70/3.5D,35-135/3.5, et al
Nikkor AF //50/1.8,//Nikkor MF//50/2ai,50/1.8ais 50/1.4ai,24/2.8ais,28/2.8ai,28/3.5ai,55microAis/2.8,105/2.5ai,200/4ai,300/4.5ai35-135/3.5Ais,et al
Kiron /Kino made lenses//70-210/4ai,28-105/3.2ai,30-80/3.5ai,Viv 28/2ai,35-85/2.8aiVivS1,105/2.8Ais Dine,24-48/3.8ai VivS1,50-150/3.8aiViv,28-85/2.8aiViv,100/2.8Nai Viv,70-210/3.5Nai Viv,28/2.5ai Viv Komine made Viv//24/2Ais,135/2.8aiCF,28-50/3.5ai,28-90/2.8ai Viv S1,80-200/4.5aiCosina made Viv 19/3.8 Ais...Also Sigma 24/2.8 Ais Tokina made24/2.8ai VivAF Sigma 21-35/3.5,& other lenses... A link to some of my Flickr albums...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/screaminscott/albums |
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Seele
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Seele wrote:
Luisalegria,
If you have some close-up supplementary lenses, you can build a version of the Puyo & Pulligny "Symmetrical Anachromatic" lens; the method is well-known but I'd just be as well repeat it here.
Get a pair of identical close-up supplementary lenses, and mount them back-to-back (concave sides facing each other), the distance between them at one-sixth of their common focal length. Example: a +2 supplementary lens has its focal length at 1/2m, so the distance between them would be 1/18m, or 8.3cm; a central stop can also be added if so wish. This whole lens unit is then moved in relation to the camera for focussing.
There is no real need to make the lens too elaborate; cardboard tubes would be quite sufficient for getting a taste of it. |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Seele wrote: |
Luisalegria,
If you have some close-up supplementary lenses, you can build a version of the Puyo & Pulligny "Symmetrical Anachromatic" lens; the method is well-known but I'd just be as well repeat it here.
Get a pair of identical close-up supplementary lenses, and mount them back-to-back (concave sides facing each other), the distance between them at one-sixth of their common focal length. Example: a +2 supplementary lens has its focal length at 1/2m, so the distance between them would be 1/18m, or 8.3cm; a central stop can also be added if so wish. This whole lens unit is then moved in relation to the camera for focussing.
There is no real need to make the lens too elaborate; cardboard tubes would be quite sufficient for getting a taste of it. |
This I must try. Do you have any results you can show? How is focal length calculated? _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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mikkokam
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 29 Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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mikkokam wrote:
FernandoB12 wrote: |
There are a sample of Takumar 50mm 1.4 plus Soligor MC Tele converter 3X.
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Excellent feel -- I tested a low quality M42 3x teleconverter earlier, and it did not give that good results.
Mikko _________________ Latest pictures: http://www.flickr.com/mikkokam
Camera bodies: Leica M4-2 • Zenit-11 • Panasonic GF1
Lenses: Vivitar 17/3.5 • Pentax Cosmicar 25/1.4 • Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9 • Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4 • Voigtländer Nokton 40/1.4 • Yashinon DS-M 50/1.4 • Helios 44-3 MC 58/2 • Helios 44M-4 58/2 • Helios 40-2 85/1.5 • Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5 • Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 • DIY toy lenses 170/2.8 & 85/1.4 • DIY soft focus 50/1.8 • DIY tilt-shift lenses 75/3.5 & 75/4.5
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mikkokam
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 29 Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: |
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mikkokam wrote:
Seele wrote: |
There is no real need to make the lens too elaborate; cardboard tubes would be quite sufficient for getting a taste of it. |
Tested a low-tech toy lens by using 1 and 2 magnifying glasses and cardboard. However, these were biconvex (and toys), so the quality was interesting to put it in a flattering way. Stopped down a bit sharper, wide open huge chromatic aberrations:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikkokam/sets/72157622086450606/
Mikko _________________ Latest pictures: http://www.flickr.com/mikkokam
Camera bodies: Leica M4-2 • Zenit-11 • Panasonic GF1
Lenses: Vivitar 17/3.5 • Pentax Cosmicar 25/1.4 • Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9 • Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4 • Voigtländer Nokton 40/1.4 • Yashinon DS-M 50/1.4 • Helios 44-3 MC 58/2 • Helios 44M-4 58/2 • Helios 40-2 85/1.5 • Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5 • Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 • DIY toy lenses 170/2.8 & 85/1.4 • DIY soft focus 50/1.8 • DIY tilt-shift lenses 75/3.5 & 75/4.5
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FernandoB12
Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Posts: 231 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: |
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FernandoB12 wrote:
Hi Mikko,
Thank you. The Takumar 50mm 1.4 at the moment my best lens, so it was easy to got good results.....
You got very good results with your DIY lens. Congratulations. _________________ Camera: Nikon D80 Canon 20D Pentax Spotmatic
Manual Lens: Nikkor 24mm f/2.8; Nikkor Ai 50mm f/1.4; Nikkor 50mm f/2.0; Nikkor Micro AI 55mm f/3.5; Nikkor H 85mm f/1.8; Nikkor P.C 105mm f/2.5; Nikkor Q 135mm f/2.8; Nikkor P 180mm f/2.8; Nikon Series E 75~150mm f/3.5;
SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4; SMC Takumar 55mm f/1.8; Super Takumar 85mm f/1.9; Takumar S-M-C 120mm f/2.8; Takumar S-M-C 200mm f/4; Tele Takumar 300mm f/6.3
Vivitar Series 1 Macro 105mm 2.5
Helios M44-4 58mm f/2; Soligor 350mm f/5.6; Soligor 135mm f/2.8;
AF Lens: AF-S Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED; AF Nikkor 70-210mm f/4-5.6; |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I've just ordered a few closeup lenses to experiment with, and a stepup ring to mount on my bellows.
If anyone has any info on construction of such a beast I'd like to hear. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3439 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
My soft focus solution is a Rokkor 50/1.2 with generic MC/MinAf converter. I hoped something else of the converter, but as softfocus help it works well. |
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edumad
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 Posts: 348 Location: Esposende, Portugal
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: |
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edumad wrote:
I've got a Super-Paragon 135mm that is soft focus, not intentionally I think _________________ TWAPSI - The World As Photography Sees It |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
After doing a bit of digging around I see that I need 2 closeup filters of the same type. I need a length of pvc tube to connect them and the length of the tube will be the focal length of the lens. I'll make some carboard disks of various sizes to act as an iris.
Questions for those that are in the know.....
What difference with +1, +2, +4 dioptres make?
With the lens on bellows, what focal length do I require to obtain infinity focus? _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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Seele
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Seele wrote:
Martin,
The focal length of this doublet assembly should be somewhat less than the combined focal lengths, but the distance between the lenses should also be a factor as well. Using different close-up supplementary lenses would just alter the focal length of the combined lens, hence my suggestion of using cardboard tubes first to get the measurements right before committing to more costly materials.
However, in the past I had done some custom projects and found that home-made cardboard tubes are totally satisfactory. First use a cylindrical object as a former, if too slim, wrap paper very tightly around it to make up the correct inner diameter, then wrap it tightly in cling film which prevents the tube in construction to stick to it.
You can use brown paper for the lamination, if you wish you can use woodworking glue, but if you want it even stronger, use a powder form resin mixed in water for boat-building, sold under the name "Cascamite" or similar; when dried, it becomes solid and will not be affected by moisture.
Two tubes can then be made to telescope within each other, the larger one attached to the end of a T-mount, if you so wish, and the other can just be grabbed at the front edge for trombone-action focussing. The inside can be lined with stick-on velvet, and the outside covered in black Con-Tact paper for a smart refined appearance.
If you wish to install a central stop, the lens can be broken into two pieces and washer stops dropped in.
There is some leeway regarding the separation between the two lenses, the minimum distance is one-sixth of their common focal length, and this can be increased somewhat; experiment to see the effects if you can.
Several years ago at another forum I described this home-made lens and it generated a bit of discussions at yet another forum:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-19092.html
Here is a real one on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/LENS-ANACHROMATIC-OF-Mr-the-Ct-PUYO-SOFT-FOCUS-RARE_W0QQitemZ120420591328QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item1c09a066e0&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_trkparms=%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30
... and it has a non-adjustable central stop which stops it down only slightly. |
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mikkokam
Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 29 Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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mikkokam wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote: |
After doing a bit of digging around I see that I need 2 closeup filters of the same type. I need a length of pvc tube to connect them and the length of the tube will be the focal length of the lens. I'll make some carboard disks of various sizes to act as an iris.
Questions for those that are in the know.....
What difference with +1, +2, +4 dioptres make?
With the lens on bellows, what focal length do I require to obtain infinity focus? |
A dioptre versus focal length:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioptre
Stacking lenses, the combined focal length is:
Code: |
f_combined = 1 / ( 1/f1 + 1/f2 - distance/(f1 x f2) ) |
Back focal distance (from the backmost lens optical plane) = BFL
Code: |
BFL = (f2 x (distance - f1) ) / ( distance - (f1 + f2) ) |
To focus, move both lenses together (unit focus). For infinity focus, you need to be able to move the lens so that BFL = distance between sensor and the back lens. For close focus, the lenses need to move away from the sensor. For M42, the sensor-to-flange distance is around 45.5 mm.
For a given minimum focus distance to aim for, you get the following:
Code: |
focus_distance_min = 1 / ( 1/f_combined - 1/distanceX ), |
where distanceX is roughly the distance from the sensor to the center of the two lenses.
Test by packing the lenses to a tube, handhold it in front of the camera and move it closer and further.
Others with actual knowledge in optics, please correct any mistakes above, this is what I used when testing toy lenses.
Mikko _________________ Latest pictures: http://www.flickr.com/mikkokam
Camera bodies: Leica M4-2 • Zenit-11 • Panasonic GF1
Lenses: Vivitar 17/3.5 • Pentax Cosmicar 25/1.4 • Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9 • Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4 • Voigtländer Nokton 40/1.4 • Yashinon DS-M 50/1.4 • Helios 44-3 MC 58/2 • Helios 44M-4 58/2 • Helios 40-2 85/1.5 • Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5 • Jupiter-37A 135/3.5 • DIY toy lenses 170/2.8 & 85/1.4 • DIY soft focus 50/1.8 • DIY tilt-shift lenses 75/3.5 & 75/4.5
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Helios
Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 537 Location: East of France
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Helios wrote:
Grease on uv filter .... |
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orly_andico
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 253 Location: Philippines
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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orly_andico wrote:
I'd like to point out that two symmetrical achromats back-to-back is a standard Anastigmat formula. You don't even need to buy close-up diopters, places like www.surplusshed.com sell a lot of cemented achromats for their eyepiece kits.
For example their "26mm Super Plossl kit" has two, identical cemented achromats which is just handy for these types of experiments.
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l1714.html
and for only $6.50 ! sure beats scrounging ebay for diopters.. |
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greg
Joined: 21 Mar 2009 Posts: 683
Expire: 2012-12-03
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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greg wrote:
That is a very neat place, actually only a few hours drive away. I may have to take a look. |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
The formula isn't making much sense to me. I'll just play it by ear and see what I get.
Unfortunately that shop is in the US so it's still cheaper to get the closeup lenses. I just don't know which ones should work best. I'm after a FL of 50-90mm I guess. So should I get weak +1s or strong +10s? _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
You can try different means of deteriorating lens performance and increase optical aberrations. Some of these methods might bring the effect you want.
The key is to achive a good edge sharpness and still have the glow. That's the tricky part. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Seele
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Seele wrote:
orly_andico,
While there are "Double Anastigmats" consisting of a pair of identical achromats, such as Dagor, Double Protar, Turner Reich, Collinear etc, having a pair of achromats arranged symmetrically does not automatically correct for astigmatism in addition to the other optical defects. The Rapid Rectilinear and the identical Aplanat from 1866 certainly did not, and even with the availability of optical glass from Jena, Schroder stumbled when designing the Concentric for Ross by correcting astigmatism but left spherical aberrations uncorrected.
Martin,
As a lens' focal length is the inverse of its diotric power, it means a +2 has focal length of 500mm, +3 has its at 333mm, and so on. With a pair of +3 lenses the focal length would be around 150mm if my calcuations are not too far off, and a pair of +4 should give about 135mm. |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Seele wrote: |
Martin,
As a lens' focal length is the inverse of its diotric power, it means a +2 has focal length of 500mm, +3 has its at 333mm, and so on. With a pair of +3 lenses the focal length would be around 150mm if my calcuations are not too far off, and a pair of +4 should give about 135mm. |
That's useful. Thanks! _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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alex
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 561 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: |
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alex wrote:
Screamin Scott wrote: |
I've always used women's hose stretched over the front of the lens (white or black) |
Do you take the women out of the hose first? _________________ Alex |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
alex wrote: |
Screamin Scott wrote: |
I've always used women's hose stretched over the front of the lens (white or black) |
Do you take the women out of the hose first? |
_________________ Casual attendance these days |
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