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He doubts on buying a digital SLR.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: He doubts on buying a digital SLR. Reply with quote

Hello:

I repair my old cameras in a prestigious workshop of repairs of Barcelona, Spain (Europe) and I have friendship with the owner: he has recommended to me not to buy any digital SLR, since the mechanics of all is very weak and that to pay 500 € for a camera of plastic is too expensive.

Please: I ask you for your opinion.

Thank you and Bests Regards: David.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that with no doubt any 35mm camera can survive the latest dslr. Why ? its simple : less electronic, les problems. Mechanical items are refixable. Now that said i think a dslr can last maybe 5 years in normal usage so its a 100€ investment per year for a 500€ camera Very Happy .


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoy the freedom of "free" film - especially as someone who is still learning and likes to experiment. I paid $600 for my camera, but I have shot 10,000 images in the past 12 months. That would cost MUCH more than $600 to print and develop, not to mention film. If my camera lasts only 3 years it will have paid for itself vs film, several times.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

same for me, i shoot digital because it's "free", and one of the greatest advantages of digital is the learning process you have - you shoot and can see and correct the picture right after you made it, that's awesome i think because you don't need to wait for the print to see your mistakes


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Thanks for your opinions! Reply with quote

Hello.

Thanks for your opinions. I have the following digital compact cameras:

- Sony Cyber Shot 3,2 M pixels.
- Olympus SP 310
- Canon Ixus 70

But it is a shame to make my lenses forgotten M 42 and Pentax K: for it I want to buy a digital Pentax SLR.

Bests Regards: David


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A digital SLR should last for 100,000+ shutter activations. That is rather a lot of photographs. I don't see why the electronics would go wrong if it isn't being used, so why shouldn't a good SLR last 10 or 20 years?


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOptimist wrote:
same for me, i shoot digital because it's "free", and one of the greatest advantages of digital is the learning process you have - you shoot and can see and correct the picture right after you made it, that's awesome i think because you don't need to wait for the print to see your mistakes


Yes for the free part and yes for learning. But shooting the same picture 10 times in a row in order to have a perfect image, while if you know what you're doing ( light etc ) can obtain it with one shutter release, is a part that i like less cause it seems like robots, and for me photography is something slow that takes time, and i have pleasures to wait in order to see my negatives developped . And take time to choose images, have few looks at them and find something better/worse. That is my photo "philosophy" I don't know if dslr are made for me. Too quick ^.^

I was wondering last days at how about technology permits people to do photography, it has evolved to the point when you can see your image right away, and people ( like me ) still complain Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tkbslc wrote:
I enjoy the freedom of "free" film - especially as someone who is still learning and likes to experiment. I paid $600 for my camera, but I have shot 10,000 images in the past 12 months. That would cost MUCH more than $600 to print and develop, not to mention film. If my camera lasts only 3 years it will have paid for itself vs film, several times.


How many was good shoots ?

Count good shoots only if compare prices , all digital user including me makes tons of garbage. Great thing in film you have to learn, thinking and shoot only after. With film you will be better photographer than with digital that for sure. If we compare both style, film is same joy than a cup of tea at 5 clock pm, digital like a coke in run. Both have place , both can be good.
I am really happy we have both.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think that having both technologies is great. But if you're a good film shooter, i don't see why the same reflexion and taking time to shoot cannot be applied to dslr. When 'il get one, i'll shoot with the same approach as on slr : taking time and not to shoot as a mad just cause its free ( or drunk just for fun ) Very Happy. Quality is more important that quantity ain't it ?


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if I love obsolete technology DSLR is a must have tool same than film cameras. Some thing is better on film other one is better on DSLR. I select cameras based on subjects. To not take DSLR same mistake than not shoot on film.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulC wrote:
A digital SLR should last for 100,000+ shutter activations. That is rather a lot of photographs. I don't see why the electronics would go wrong if it isn't being used, so why shouldn't a good SLR last 10 or 20 years?


Actually, it's not the electronics that's supposed to last 100,000+ shutter activations, it's the shutter. I suppose the shutter are not as good as old heavy robust shutters in old cameras.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hexi wrote:
TheOptimist wrote:
same for me, i shoot digital because it's "free", and one of the greatest advantages of digital is the learning process you have - you shoot and can see and correct the picture right after you made it, that's awesome i think because you don't need to wait for the print to see your mistakes


Yes for the free part and yes for learning. But shooting the same picture 10 times in a row in order to have a perfect image, while if you know what you're doing ( light etc ) can obtain it with one shutter release, is a part that i like less cause it seems like robots, and for me photography is something slow that takes time, and i have pleasures to wait in order to see my negatives developped . And take time to choose images, have few looks at them and find something better/worse. That is my photo "philosophy" I don't know if dslr are made for me. Too quick ^.^

I was wondering last days at how about technology permits people to do photography, it has evolved to the point when you can see your image right away, and people ( like me ) still complain Very Happy


I do not take shots 10x in a row to get the perfect shot. I take the same approach as with a film camera. However, I may occasionally take 2 shots which are framed differently or portrait instead of landscape, etc, but I would have done that with film anyway. The advantage of digital, is that I sometimes take a quick shot of something I would not have bothered with on film, and get a good shot I never would have taken otherwise.

However, I take your point about multiple shots.... I know of quite a few people who take 2 or 3 or 4 images of EXACTLY the same shot. It's silly in my view, but it's not something I would ever do.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hexi wrote:
I also think that having both technologies is great. But if you're a good film shooter, i don't see why the same reflexion and taking time to shoot cannot be applied to dslr. When 'il get one, i'll shoot with the same approach as on slr : taking time and not to shoot as a mad just cause its free ( or drunk just for fun ) Very Happy. Quality is more important that quantity ain't it ?


This is exactly the approach I take. I see no need to change.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: He doubts on buying a digital SLR. Reply with quote

Petzval 1840 wrote:
Hello:

I repair my old cameras in a prestigious workshop of repairs of Barcelona, Spain (Europe) and I have friendship with the owner: he has recommended to me not to buy any digital SLR, since the mechanics of all is very weak and that to pay 500 € for a camera of plastic is too expensive.


I guess he is just "old school". Wink

I used to repair cameras and lenses years ago, and I've taken up this again recently, more as a hobby.

Even film cameras & lenses of the last 15 years are often made of plastic, and not much different to many of the consumer grade digital SLRs of today.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attila wrote:
tkbslc wrote:
I enjoy the freedom of "free" film - especially as someone who is still learning and likes to experiment. I paid $600 for my camera, but I have shot 10,000 images in the past 12 months. That would cost MUCH more than $600 to print and develop, not to mention film. If my camera lasts only 3 years it will have paid for itself vs film, several times.


How many was good shoots ?

Count good shoots only if compare prices , all digital user including me makes tons of garbage. Great thing in film you have to learn, thinking and shoot only after. With film you will be better photographer than with digital that for sure. If we compare both style, film is same joy than a cup of tea at 5 clock pm, digital like a coke in run. Both have place , both can be good.
I am really happy we have both.


Probably only 5% are shots I will care about it 2 years, but something to note is that these 10,000 shots are my first ever year with an SLR of any kind, digital or not. So yes, I have blown through 200 shots in an afternoon shooting the same thing over and over with different settings to see how it changes the image. What a great learning tool for someone who is learning the basics.

With film you have a harder time learning because you have to wait and see how the shot turned out. By then, who can remember if it was shutter speed, focus, aperture, film speed? With digital it is all right there embedded in the file. I can see that my shot is soft, for example, because my shutter was at 1/15 instead of 1/100. With film I get to guess.

I will also disagree that film shooters were more methodical. Perhaps amateurs on a budget who could not afford the film, but not for those who had to get the shot.. Our wedding photographer sold us the negatives to our wedding and he did over 400 shots at our wedding. And that was on 6x6 film! As he was being paid, he HAD to shoot that many to make sure he got the 75 good ones for our album. With digital, now everyone has that luxury. Why not use it?


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dnas wrote:
PaulC wrote:
A digital SLR should last for 100,000+ shutter activations. That is rather a lot of photographs. I don't see why the electronics would go wrong if it isn't being used, so why shouldn't a good SLR last 10 or 20 years?


Actually, it's not the electronics that's supposed to last 100,000+ shutter activations, it's the shutter. I suppose the shutter are not as good as old heavy robust shutters in old cameras.


Yeah, I know, but the electronics should outlast the shutters. As long as it isn't exposed to some corrosive environment or physical shock I would think the electronics would last indefinitely. I'm not an electronic engineer, though.

Incidentally, how many activatios were old non-pro film SLRs rated at? I reckon that because of the cost of film most of them only got used for a few thousand shots, so they could have been rated well below 100,000 without upsetting the punters. And I doubt if the cloth shutter in a pro medium format camera would get anywhere near 100,000.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hexi wrote:
I also think that having both technologies is great. But if you're a good film shooter, i don't see why the same reflexion and taking time to shoot cannot be applied to dslr. When 'il get one, i'll shoot with the same approach as on slr : taking time and not to shoot as a mad just cause its free ( or drunk just for fun ) Very Happy. Quality is more important that quantity ain't it ?


I think there are advantages to using both approaches. The slow, careful, single-shot approach teaches a lot about taking care with composition etc., while the machine-gun SLR option allows you to learn a lot about how small differences in exposure or lighting can make or break a shot.

Using both technologies allows the lessons from each to be applied to the other and can create a more rounded approach to photography.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulC wrote:
dnas wrote:
PaulC wrote:
A digital SLR should last for 100,000+ shutter activations. That is rather a lot of photographs. I don't see why the electronics would go wrong if it isn't being used, so why shouldn't a good SLR last 10 or 20 years?


Actually, it's not the electronics that's supposed to last 100,000+ shutter activations, it's the shutter. I suppose the shutter are not as good as old heavy robust shutters in old cameras.


Yeah, I know, but the electronics should outlast the shutters. As long as it isn't exposed to some corrosive environment or physical shock I would think the electronics would last indefinitely. I'm not an electronic engineer, though.

Incidentally, how many activatios were old non-pro film SLRs rated at? I reckon that because of the cost of film most of them only got used for a few thousand shots, so they could have been rated well below 100,000 without upsetting the punters. And I doubt if the cloth shutter in a pro medium format camera would get anywhere near 100,000.


Yes, that's what I meant.... the electronics should outlast the shutter by a long way, on the average. (I am an electronic engineer!!!)


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had my Canon 10D since 2005, and it wasn't new then. It's a solid piece of work, and though it's 'only' 6Mpx, it does everything I want it to do. The image quality is good, and it's very robust.

I can understand a little of the rationale that says you can shoot 10,000 images in a year in a digital camera, and save a heap over film. That, I think, is a fragile argument. It only makes sense if you'd otherwise have shot 10,000 images on film in a year anyway. That's pretty much a roll every day non-stop. If you're a professional, the case is unarguable, but if you're not shooting that kind of volume, far less so.

Processing 10,000 images a year is a lot of investment in time, and whilst it's your time to dispose of, it's disposed of at the expense of something else you could do. I learned this myself by adopting the new digital owner's scattergun approach to shooting, firing off at everything and using the 'continuous shooting' function until the camera's buffer choked, in the expectation that I'd get at least one useable shot. After a while, I began to realise that I was spending heaps of time at the computer, mostly ditching images I shouldn't have shot in the first place. That time isn't 'free', it has a cost, in that it prevents me doing other things, like rolling on the carpet with my grand-daughter. These days, I use my 10D like a film camera, trying to do as much of the work as possible at exposure time, and as little as possible in Photoshop. I suspect that's not unusual.

Sure, with film I have to wait to see how the shot turned out. But I learned fairly quickly how to expose accurately, and how to focus accurately. It's an undoubted advantage that digital images generally store the exposure time details. All the same, with film I never get to guess. I have a photo notebook and a pencil. Have used it for decades. The early adoption of it is why I learned so quickly how to expose correctly, and I can generally estimate an exposure by eye to within a stop of my meter.

When our daughter was married, there was half an expectation that I'd take the photographs. Naturally, I stood on that plan very quickly. I'm not stupid. In the whole business, the only decision I got to make was about the photography, and I wanted the principal photographs to be on film, on Zeiss glass. We found the right photographer, and he shot it on a Hassy. My daughter, having originally wanted digital, in order to be up there with the latest, was delighted with the photographic outcome, and so was I. It wasn't cheap, but then, neither were the digital photography quotes, so whatever savings the digital photographers were making, they certainly weren't being passed on to the clients. When talking over the costs, our photographer said to us, "In twenty years time, when looking back on this day, what will you remember? The dishes that were served at the reception, or what you see in your photographs?" It was a point expertly made. Our photographs of the day are very special, and I can't remember what they cost now ; neither can I remember what I ate on that day.

Right now, I'm playing with an old Zeiss Simplex folding camera, made in Bakelite. It's nearly eighty years old. It's already outlasted a generation of digital cameras. It will probably outlast my 10D.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks for your opinions! Reply with quote

Petzval 1840 wrote:
Hello.........
But it is a shame to make my lenses forgotten M 42 and Pentax K: for it I want to buy a digital Pentax SLR.

Bests Regards: David


yes, this is a shame.
you can always use your lenses on an analog SLR though, or buy a dSLR.
Pentax is maybe the best choice for using M42 lenses and since you also have K mount lenses it must be! You may want to get either a K10/20/7 or a *istD/Ds because they have the brighter pentaprism viewfinder as compared to the pentamirror of the K100/200/M


PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an electronics engineer, electronics should last for an extremely long time in ideal conditions. Right humidity, temperature...etc.

But I've seen my fair share of things that can just 'go bad', some things will last 10% of their rated time, others 1000%


PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My D1x is with me half a year, bought used and constructed around beginning of 2002. So the camera is more than 7 years old, has the third owner and works like a charm!

I don't think, it will brake in the next 3 years, so it should last at least 10 years!

It's made of solid metall with very few plastic! So it's the same sturdy bastard as the F5 but with a digital core!

Most of my lenses are much older than the camera and work fine.

Just as an example of a long used digital.

I think that the reason to evaluate a photo more on film before you take it is the cost of film on one hand but also the manual usage, many film shooters are used to. So as I started shooting manual focusing lenses there was a rapid drop in quantity and a nice rise in quality aside from the better lenses...


PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tkbslc wrote:
I enjoy the freedom of "free" film - especially as someone who is still learning and likes to experiment. I paid $600 for my camera, but I have shot 10,000 images in the past 12 months. That would cost MUCH more than $600 to print and develop, not to mention film. If my camera lasts only 3 years it will have paid for itself vs film, several times.


not singling you out here tkbslc, only using info as example what many folks think.

Digital instant developing gives boost up learning curve, no doubt.

Cost difference minimal imho. Digital requires expensive computer for PP. Film scanner cost $ too. A lot of film can be processed for same cost as computer, but for prints, lab is cheaper than printer, paper, and ink, for both digital and film.