Tele Universar 6.3/400

[Sven]

I got this lens as a part of a package. At first I thought it was junk, but Olivier wrote in a previous thread that it might not be such a bad lens after all.
It's a very long lens with only two elements as far as I can see.
I have taken some test shots on a tripod but it's not very sturdy so the result could be somewhat affected by camera shake.
Taking good shots without a tripod is not easy with this slow long lens. Has to be a bright day.
I'm not quite sure what to think of the result.






100% Crop



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[luisalegria]

It looks a lot like the lenses often sold under the Spiratone brand.

These should be giving you better results than what you are getting.

You may have a tripod or focusing problem. Getting exact focus with this kind of thing is not easy.

If there is glass in the narrow section of the barrel, its a four-element lens.

[Sven]

OK, I will try it with a better tripod.
It might also be better with the D200 rather than the Pentax since the D200 is heavier. But I don't have a remote for the Nikon.

There is indeed a lens in the narrow section, close to the tripod mount.

[xjjohnno]

Besides the name that lens is a dead ringer for my Prinz Galaxy which is absolute rubbish.

[luisalegria]

If you have a Pentax DSLR with IS, you should be able to get sharp shots hand-held, no problem with tripod or weight.

Focus is still a problem though, it takes practice to focus this exactly.

[Sven]

[Sven]

[luisalegria]

Thats right, IS - Image stabilization, anti-shake.

Very useful on a 400mm.

Focus confirm is very inaccurate with these lenses. Some ways around it -

1. Get focus confirm, but move focus slightly forward and back while looking at the image (yes its small and dim, but...) for the best image. After you get used to it even on these awful viewfinders you will trust your eye better than the focus confirm.

2. Bracket focus. Get focus confirm while focusing forward, and then the same focusing backward, and take pictures as you focus. One of them will be sharp.

[Sven]

[cooltouch]

Spiratone, Cambron and a host of others. These lenses -- preset T-mount teles -- sold for about $70-$80 new back in the '80s. They've always had a good reputation, delivering good results when used properly. They would be mentioned on an occasional basis in the photography magazines back then, and the comments were always positive with respect to image quality.

Using one of these is not unlike using a mirror telephoto. If you can achieve accurate focus, and if you have the shutter speed high enough (or a sturdy tripod and mirror lock-up), you should get good results.

[pshute]

[luisalegria]

If we are discussing just third-party Japanese lenses of the 1970's-1980's -
The 400/5.6 lenses were usually made by more expensive manufacturers like Kiron and Tokina. The 400/6.3's we are discussing were usually made by much cheaper makers like Kawanon(Astranar is a common brand), though there is a common Tokina-made 400/6.3.

Even today there is usually a big price difference between the 400/5.6's and the 400/6.3.

The 400/5.6 Vivitar (Tokina ?) seems to be rather second rate wide open. I can't answer for the others.

Physically shorter probably because of a more complex optical formula.

The cheap 400/6.3 lenses are usually four element true telephotos (optical length is shorter than physical length), but they are not extreme telephotos. Uncomplicated and unambitious design often means that good optical results are easier to achieve.

[cooltouch]

Back in my camera buying/selling days, I saw, and owned on occasion, a variety of the T-mount preset teles that the 400/5.6 is a member of. Brands like Vivitar -- and maybe Soligor? -- were most common. These lenses were physically large, very well made, and usually were two piece affairs. You had a "head" end and a "mount" end. The heads could be interchanged. I've seen 600mm and 800mm lenses like this, in addition to the 400mm. So, a possible complete set would be a single mount with a 400mm, 600mm, and 800mm heads.

Here's a 600mm f/8 version of this lens:

http://cgi.ebay.com/600MM-F8-TELEPHOTO-VIVITAR-LENS-IN-A-MINOLTA-MOUNT_W0QQitemZ200386990226QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item2ea7fed092

Here's a Soligor 800mm f/11? :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Soligor-800mm-lens-antique-rare_W0QQitemZ400002756169QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item5d2205ae49


One of the things I've always liked about these lenses is the gunsight-style aiming piece located on the lens head (visible in the first photo at the above location).

[luisalegria]

Thats the Tokina version of the 600 f/8.

Soligor sold the Kawanon-made 600 f/8, I had that one but sold it.

The Kawanon was more aesthetically designed than the Tokina, but the Tokina has more features like pegs for the focus and aperture rings, and a "gunsight" for pointing the thing.

Both could be easily separated into two pieces.

Neither had interchangable heads as far as I could tell.

There were also 800mm versions of these.

I have seen these 800mm's packaged in cases to take them as two pieces, and also in long tubes.

[cooltouch]

Hey Luis, yeah I think you're probably right. The mount ends of the two lenses I've provided links for do not look the same, so interchangeability is doubtful.

Also, you'll note that the Vivitar above is shown with one of those cases. I had a 600mm Vivitar like that one for a while, which came with that same case.

[Screamin Scott]

Many of the old preset 400 6.3's were made by Tamron (ergo T mount) & were re-branded & sold under many different names. I had one for my old Minolta SRT 101 back in the mid 70's (was stolen in 1980) & I got one just a few years ago (Spiratone branded) to use with my Nikon D70s...Unless it's very sunny, you will need a sturdy tripod & you can get decent results....I paid about $20 for mine off of eBay. It was listed under an obscure mount (can't remember which) & did not note the fact it was a T mount...The versions listed for Nikon & Pentax used to go for more money but I think as more & more people realize that all they have to do is change out the T mount, prices have kinda equalized

[luisalegria]

Hi Scott,

I've heard of the Tamron origin of some 400/6.3's, but I have never been able to verify this.

Tamron definitely was early in the market for cheap long teles with their T-mounts, but the ones that Tamron is known to have made were f/6.9's and f/7.5's - I have and have had several of these. Many were sold under the "Spectra", "Taika", and "Aetna" brands, using the "Coligon" trademark. Others were sold by Soligor and Hanimex. Tamron also made a 400mm f/5.5, also sold under other brands; I have one of these also. But no f/6.3's.

Other makers picked up the T-mount specification very quickly - hence Tokina, Sankor, Kiron, Komine and a dozen other Japanese makers had full lines of T-mount presets out in the 1960's.

The 400/6.3 specifications origin is quite obscure. The first one that is clearly a 400/6.3 T-mount preset of the classic sort is in an ad I saw from about 1963, clearly a Tokina (Tokyo Koki)-made lens, sold under the Taika Cinconar brand. Taika was a distributors brand, generally taken over or related to Aetna. Aetna took over Taikas trademarks like "Coligon", "Rokunar", etc.

Known makes of common 400/6.3's -

Tokina - A very distinctive design, sold under many brand names including Accura, Aetna, Taika, Hanimex, Lentar, Vemar, etc.; plus Mamiya, Ricoh, Petri and Yashica. I think I saw one once as a Soligor. There is also an Auto 400/6.3 Tokina (commonly seen as a T4 Soligor or Vivitar) that looks very different, and possibly a preset version of the Auto Tokina thats also different.

Kawanon (Kawakami) - Another distinctive design - look for the long, smooth, slightly curved forward barrel, the little brother of the 600mm and 800mm's also made by Kawanon. Sold in great numbers apparently under the Astranar brand, primarily by mail order, but also found under other names.

Kalimar/Kaligar - Unknown maker, Kalimar was an importers brand. Some were prest, some Auto-T. Some were sold as Soligors.

Spiratone - Unknown maker, Spiratone was a mail order dealer and distributor. This is of course the classic cheap 400/6.3, and the one pictured on this thread, but it was not the first - the Tokina lens was seen earlier - nor probably the most common. Kawanon/Astranars are actually easier to find. Many brands of course besides Spiratone - Prinz/Galaxy, Cambron, etc.

Komine, Kiron, Itoh, Sankor, and who knows who else also probably made 400/6.3's at some point.

[pshute]

Thanks, all very interesting information.

[luisalegria]

The term "telephoto" referred to a range of optical designs that achieved a long effective focal length with a shorter actual length of lens.

These were designed originally for view cameras, to allow a long focal length without requiring very long bellows. I have a Wollensak 400/5,6 for 4x5 thats of this type.

So many 400mm lenses are considerably shorter than 400mm measured from the film plane to the front element (or the optical center of the lens formula). Usually a 400mm telephoto requires 4 elements at least.

A lens with a long focal length that requires the full real length is just a long lens.

I have a very long Piesker 400/5.5 for instance, that is not a telephoto. It has two elements in front, and thats it.

[Olivier]

Hello Sven.
My Soligor 6.3/400 needs good light too.


My first shots were like yours. Then I managed to take better ones.
Here are some shots taken with it :





wide open


closed few stops


wide open


closed few stops


wide open


closed


and a last one taken in the fields from my car (foggy morning)

[Sven]

Olivier:
Thanks for showing some samples. I like the cat photo.
I'm nowhere near the sharpness and contrast you are getting and I doubt if I ever will be with this lens.
It's supposed to be sunny tomorrow. I will have another go at it.

Telephoto or not?
This lens is very close to 400 mm in physical lenght. I look like the neighbourhod papparazzi walking around with it.
It has one lens in the front and a lens group close to the tripod mount. Could be one or two lenses in that rear assembly.