who made these 200mm lenses?

[orly_andico]

They are the two on the right, both are 200mm f3.5, M42, minimum focusing distance of 2.7m. The first one is an "Image" brand, the second one is a "Hanimex" but aside from the focusing ring grip material, they are identical.

Here next to an Asahi SMC-M 200/4 and an Asahi Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 200/4:



More details:





I do know that they are not Komine's because Komine's have a very distinctive build...

[orly_andico]

I noticed that the white lettering flared out. These photos were taken with manual power flash and a Super-Takumar 50/1.4 wide-open. Which resulted in the bloom...

[LucisPictor]

Some factory in Japan. In the 70s and 80s of last century many "noname" lenses wre produced by some manufacturer and it is really hard to trace back their origin.

[estudleon]

I saw the yellow numbers and the focusing ring grip material -letherette -. It seems to be chinon lens.

Anyway, Chinon did your own lenses? In one time tomioka diid some (55/1,4; 35/2,8; 100/2,8; etc)

Rino.

[orly_andico]

isn't the Chinon 200/3.5 very well-regarded? these ones don't match the sharpness of the (slightly slower) S-M-C Takumar 200/4

Edit: http://www.southerncape.co.za/recreation/photography/lenses.html shows a chinon 200/3.5 at the very bottom of the page, and it certainly looks like mine! so if this guy's site is accurate it is a chinon. the 2.7m minimum focusing distance is quite disappointing though and considering i have two other 200mm's these literally gather dust...

(the SMC-M 200/4 has a 1.5m MFD, native K mount, and is the smallest! but mechanically the S-M-C Takumar is nicest)

[luisalegria]

I don't believe that Chinon made lenses.

Some of the possible makers in that period (mid-late 1970's - no doubt there were others too), for that type of rebranded lens -

Cosina
Tokina
Makina
Cimko
Sun - doubtful
Komine - doubtful
Kiron - doubtful

I'd say the first four are the prime suspects.

[casualcollector]

The Hanimex styled lens was cataloged by Chinon and GAF as accesories for the L-17 and L-14 cameras of 1974-75 period. The store I worked in carried these as Hanimex lenses. Sometime, probably in 1975 our lenses got restyled and I'm nearly certain came from Makina. There's wiggle room in my opinion on who made the leatherette style lenses.

My hunches on manufacturer, in order...
Makina
Cosina
Tomioka (not likely)
Kino (outside possibility)

Looking at images of the same lens in various brands is helpful, but being able to look at them first hand, perhaps even a little disassembly, may uncover similarities that a little restyling can mask.

[eeyore_nl]

[orly_andico]

in this thread


http://forum.mflenses.com/looking-for-200mm-lens-advice-t17227,highlight,chinon.html


martinsmith99 says his chinon 200/3.5 is overall better than the SMC Tak..

[eeyore_nl]

[spiralcity]

Chinon glass performs very well.
It is my understanding that Chinon DID make glass.

It's very hard to find good proof, so I dont want to assume and should reserve my judgment.


Chinon Corporation was established in 1962 in Japan by Mr. Hiroshi Chino as a holding company of Chinon Industries Inc., itself established in 1948 by the same founder. Chinon began as a manufacturing and marketing company for optical products, such as lens modules, 35mm cameras, movie cameras, and computer peripheral equipment such as disc drives and printers. Chinon’s long-time partner, Eastman Kodak Company, became Chinon Industries Inc.’s majority shareholder in 1997 and merged Chinon Industries Inc. into the Eastman Kodak group. Chinon Corporation has recently restarted its own marketing activities as the formal successor of CHINON. Now, in 2009, Chinon Corporation will be the first international distributor for Tachyon, Inc. for the Tachyon XC helmet camera.

The key word "MANUFACTURER" as stated in the Chinon history found on the web.

[PBFACTS]

[spiralcity]

[Xpres]

What we need on this forum is some Japanese members who can search japanese sites for info, or who may have already done so.
Who knows some good sites in Japan?

[casualcollector]

Hiya Spiral,

Proving things like this can be very difficult, and like Xpres says, we need someone on the ground in Japan who is fluent in both languages and hopefully had some past involvement in the industry.

Here's what I can look back on for experience. Following the industry through magazines since 1970. Owned a Japanese made 35mm, lenses and accys since 1971. Selling and management training in photo dept for a discount chain from 1974 to 1977. Actively collecting since 1994. Poking around the web for information since 1999. I have an embarassing number of cameras and lenses that I can compare characteristics. As big as that number is, it still isn't enough.

With regards to the statement from the Chinon website. It is a rephrasing of a previous website that I recall reading before the Kodak takeover of Chinon. My recollection of the statement is that Chinon made "lens components". I then took that to mean metal, not glass, but there is room for me to be wrong. Manufacturing optical products does not neccesarily mean doing everything in house. At this point in time there are probably few left at Chinon with a historical perspective that dates back to the products we are discussing. Many camera manufacturers did not make the lenses that bear their name. Ricoh, Petri, Miranda are among them.

Based on my experience, my informed opinion on Chinon lenses is that: (a) they were bought from outside suppliers, different suppliers at different times. (b) may have been assembled in house from bought or subcontracted components.

I (We) may never be able to prove to your satisfaction that Chinon didn't make the lenses bearing their name. Let's all continue searching and sharing what we've learned. There was much cooperation among competitors in the Japanese camera industry.

Bill

[koji]

My understanding is that Chinon had never made optical lenses, all were outsourced.
Though I never researched those things, and it is now hard to dig them up. I may
contact some more knowledgeable person/people in Japan about Chinon.

[casualcollector]

Herb Keppler's article on sub contracting.
http://keppler.popphoto.com/blog/2006/03/whats_in_a_name.html

Pop Photo test of Chinon CE4 and lenses. Note the reference to differences between the 50 and the accessory lenses.
http://web7.popphoto.com/assets/download/PP0480_ChinonCE4_LabReport.pdf

[Screamin Scott]

Looking at the leatherette covering, It looks a lot like a photo of a Vivitar 135mm F2.8 CF lens someone sent me a photo of...Komine made that lens & the serial# did start with #28....I'm sure there were others that used the same leatherette though....BTW, the guy did not get that 135 as he already had a 105mm Kiron....The shop wanted $100 for it ( Nikon Pre-Ai mount)

[spiralcity]

[Xpres]

[casualcollector]

[spiralcity]

[orly_andico]

I just got a Komine Vivitar 90/2.8 Macro in K-mount (well not really a macro but an 90mm with a double-helical which allows it to extend to almost 3X its length at infinity, and gives it 1:1 reproduction) and it also has the yellow lettering. So maybe there's something to the Komine idea..

I do have a Komine Vivitar 135/2.8 which gets beaten around the bush by my SMC-M 135/3.5 and Zeiss Jena..

[Screamin Scott]

orly.
Is your 135mm Komine made Vivitar the close focus model that goes to half life size??

[Sevo]