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winmazing
Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: Super Takumar vs. Super Multi-Coated Takumar |
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winmazing wrote:
I'm looking to get a Pentax 135mm f/3.5 Takumar, and i've noticed that this brand has a couple variations - the 'Super Takumar' and the 'Super Multi-Coated Takumar'. Does the extra coating add anything special to the lens? I know these variations exist in the other focal lengths pentax offers too like the 50mm versions..
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Canon EOS 5D MK II | EOS M
AF: Canon EF 24-104mm f/4L IS, Canon EF 70-200mm F/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 1.4x EF Extender II
MF: Mir-24H 35mm f/2.0, Pentax Super Takumar 50mm f/1.4 |
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edumad
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 348
Location: Esposende, Portugal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: |
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edumad wrote:
It adds better contrast and flare protections I think 
For the price they usually go, your better of getting the S-M-C version.
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CarbonR
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 1969
Location: Clermont-Ferrand, France
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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CarbonR wrote:
Yes, there many variations of the 135mm. The two better versions are the S-M-C 135/3.5 and the S-M-C 135/2.5 V2 (6/6 construction). There are very sharp even at widest opening. The S-M-C treatment is very efficient, I never use the hoods with my S-M-C, even faced to the sun, and I get rarely flare 
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Cameras : Canon 5D, Pentax K100D, Pentax 6x7, Spotmatic
Lenses : 15mm to 1000mm (24x36)
My websites : [FR & ENG]Takumar - the eyes of the Spotmatic : info about all Takumar lenses // Kogaku - My photo site
I am selling : Takumar lenses and rare Pentax bodies, pm me if you're interested in something [MFLenses feed-back]
Information on Takumar lenses with samples :
Wide angle : Takumar 15/3.5 15mm, Takumar 17/4 17mm, Takumar 18/11 18mm, Takumar 20/4.5 20mm, Takumar 24/3.5 24mm, Takumar 28/3.5 V1 28mm, Takumar 28/3.5 V2 28mm, Takumar 35/2 V1 35mm, Takumar 35/2 V2 35mm, Takumar 35/2.3 35mm, Takumar 35/3.5 35mm, Takumar 35/4 35mm
Standard : Takumar 50/1.4 V1 50mm, Takumar 50/1.4 V2 50mm, Takumar 50/3.5 50mm, Takumar 50/4 50mm, Takumar 55/2 55/1.8 55mm, Takumar 55/2.2 V1 55mm, Takumar 55/2.2 V2 55mm, Takumar 58/2 58mm, Takumar 58/2.4 58mm
Short tele : Takumar 83/1.9 83mm, Takumar 85/1.8 85/1.9 85mm, Takumar 85/1.8 85mm, Takumar 100/2 100mm, Takumar 100/3.5 100mm, Takumar 100/4 100mm, Takumar 105/2.8 V1 105mm, Takumar 105/2.8 V2 105mm, Takumar 120/2.8 120mm
Telephoto : Takumar 135/2.5 V1 135mm, Takumar 135/2.5 V2 135mm, Takumar 135/3.5 V1 135mm, Takumar 135/3.5 V2 135mm, Takumar 150/4 V1 150mm, Takumar 150/4 V2 150mm
Long tele : Takumar 200/3.5 200mm, Takumar 200/4 200mm, Takumar 200/5.6 200mm, Takumar 300/4 V1 300mm, Takumar 300/4 V2 300mm, Takumar 300/4 V3 300mm, Takumar 300/6.3 300mm, Takumar 400/5.6 400mm, Takumar 500/4.5 500mm, Takumar 500/5 500mm, Takumar 1000/8 V1 1000mm, Takumar 1000/8 V2 1000mm
Zoom : Zoom-Takumar 45~125/4 , Zoom-Takumar 70~150/4.5 , Zoom-Takumar 85~210/4.5 , Zoom-Takumar 135~600/6.7
Achromatic : Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 85/4.5 , Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 300/5.6 300mm |
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 1212
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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zewrak wrote:
Ill go against the majority and recommend the Super Takumar. I have owned or do own the whole series except the M37 one. My personal favourite is the preset Takumar. Although, I think the Super Takumar is the better one. Coatings are evil.
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
The Super Takumar has AFAIK also a coating, the "S-M-C" one is just a little more advanced.
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Carsten, former Moderator 
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
In some posts i found (in mine too) that we accept to have two ot three versions of one lens. We say that one of them better, but we recognize to use one that there isn't which we said better.
Perhaps we not choose the sharper or the contrastier lens, but we choose the IQ of the lens.
From there, we used the pentacon pre-set 2,8/135 and not the CZJ 3,5/135, or both but not ONLY the CZJ which is the sharp and contrast of the two.
This could be applied to the ST and S-M-C or SMC.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11028
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: What S-M-C coating does |
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visualopsins wrote:
Coatings reflect off-axis light (which is also reduced by using a hood) which otherwise gets reflected around inside the lens "fogging" the image; i.e. more contrast is achieved because less off-axis light pollutes the image; darker details are not washed out by extraneous light.
some have experienced better uncoated performance on dSLR due to less contrast; coatings can make lens' contrast higher than dSLR can capture, resulting in loss of detail in darker regions of image.
S-M-C lenses have higher image IQ, with much more information in darker regions, however, the camera may not be able to capture all of it.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 1212
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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zewrak wrote:
Super takumar are singlecoated. SMC are multicoated. The preset and Auto-Takumars are not coated at all.
To discuss other lenses that I have or had. Auto-Takumar 85/1.8 vs Super Takumar 85/1.9. The former I believe have a much more "clear" image then the Super Takumar. Sure it has less contrast, but thats fixable in the rawconversion and I don't see that as a problem really.
The same applies to the others aswell, I find the image to be more crystal clear then the others. This is completly unscientific and might be my brain that play me. But thats how I think it is.
Solution is to get all of them, before people start recognizing just how good the takumars are and prices go up with 700% on some of them. You can still find the 135 and 55 for under 10$ now and then.
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
| zewrak wrote: |
| Super takumar are singlecoated. SMC are multicoated. The preset and Auto-Takumars are not coated at all. |
My Auto-Takumar 35/2.3 was definately coated.
Super-Takumars can be Multi-Coated. Asahi used experimental MC layers before they officially launched their 7-layered S-M-C. Later Super Takumars can have this MC (according to different sources it has 3-4 layers)
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 5883
Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
Most post war lenses are coated - the Auto Takumars are coated. The simpler coating has its charms, as Zewrak says, a diffrent flavor. I like it quite a bit.
no-X is correct about some Supers being super multi coated - there are different stories, whether fewer coatings, or fewer (internal) surfaces getting the treatment. The SMC / S-M-C designation capitalized on the multi coating, but really mainly indicates the aperture coupling mechanism on the mount.
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
| Relayer wrote: |
Hi
I have 3 version of Takumar 2.8/105: old preset uncoated, Super Takumar and Super Multi Coated. important that old preset have 8 blades aperture instead 6 in other. I'm try to compare this lenses and found that "SMC" and preset versions have slightly more smooth bokeh and sharpness than "Super". |
Hi, Relayer.
2,8/105 pre-set, uncoated?
Which the black and chrome or all black one?
Do you include the contrast in the sharpness or the SMC has more contrast than the pre-set one?
Thanks Relayer.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 1212
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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zewrak wrote:
| Relayer wrote: |
Hi
I have 3 version of Takumar 2.8/105: old preset uncoated, Super Takumar and Super Multi Coated. important that old preset have 8 blades aperture instead 6 in other. I'm try to compare this lenses and found that "SMC" and preset versions have slightly more smooth bokeh and sharpness than "Super". |
I have the 8 blade preset too. Sold my Super Tak one. Because once again, in my opinion the preset whooped Super tak.
The one I got is all black, with only a chrome ring behind the aperture rings.
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
| Relayer wrote: |
| estudleon wrote: |
2,8/105 pre-set, uncoated?
Which the black and chrome or all black one?
Do you include the contrast in the sharpness or the SMC has more contrast than the pre-set one? |
body all black. SMC have same contrast as preset version. |
Thanks.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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winmazing
Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
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winmazing wrote:
I found this interesting article on the net talking about the coatings on the takumar 50mm lenses. Echoes what some of you have said
http://www.pbase.com/carpents/nlsr1m6
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Canon EOS 5D MK II | EOS M
AF: Canon EF 24-104mm f/4L IS, Canon EF 70-200mm F/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 1.4x EF Extender II
MF: Mir-24H 35mm f/2.0, Pentax Super Takumar 50mm f/1.4 |
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 5883
Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
The SMC helps with haze glare and flare, i.e. situational. Outside these conditions, the differences are minor contrast wise. The way the lenses react to light is different - the Autos (like old single coated Leicas for example) react 'quicker' but then get into the light bloom thing - which is a very nice effect.
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-Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
| Nesster wrote: |
Most post war lenses are coated - the Auto Takumars are coated. The simpler coating has its charms, as Zewrak says, a diffrent flavor. I like it quite a bit.
no-X is correct about some Supers being super multi coated - there are different stories, whether fewer coatings, or fewer (internal) surfaces getting the treatment. The SMC / S-M-C designation capitalized on the multi coating, but really mainly indicates the aperture coupling mechanism on the mount. |
I recollected one more thing - SMC Pentax (K) had 7-layered MC just like SMC Takumars (M42), but these MC layers were applied to more surfaces. Asahi exactly said:
"Now that these lenses have been upgraded - with multi-coatings applied to many glass surfaces which previously were only single-coated, we have also given them a new name: SMC Pentax lenses."
It means, that SMC Takumars haven't multi-coating an all surfaces and I understand, that not even SMC Pentax lenses are multi-coated on all surfaces ("applied to many glass surfaces" - not to all glass surfaces - just more than for Takumars) - or did I comprehend it in a wrong way?
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