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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I agree with cooltouch, any 300/4 or 300/4.5 is going to be big and heavy unless it were made of cheap plastic.
To me, it is worth just accepting that a good 300mm lens is going to be big and heavy and get a Tair-3C, I don't know anyone who would be unhappy with the IQ of this lens and there are plenty of good ones for 100-150 dollars. Doesn't seem to be much variation between examples of this lens as I've yet to see a bad one, being a simple triplet it's not hard to see how they could achieve this even with Soviet QC levels.
I love my Tair-3C, I have five other 300mm lenses, all smaller and lighter and all crap IQ by comparison, I never use them as a result and just put up with the size and weight of the Tair.
This was the first shot I ever took with my Tair, I took it out of the parcel, screwed on an EOS adapter, walked out my back door, focused it at infinty and shot this pic of a seagull handheld, wide open, 1/500 sec. To me, this is explary sharpness and CA (or absence of it) for a telephoto lens and much better than anything else above 200mm that I own and I have maybe 12 lenses over 200mm.
100% crop:
This pic is with a 35mm lens, shows you how far away that seagull was when I shot the pic as I was stood in the doorway in the same spot, maybe 1m further forward, the chimney the seagull was on is just to left of frame.
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
TY for all great replies.....
now I have 3 300s coming.
MD 300/4.5 bgn from keh (720g)
then I got the chance to try the
tamron 54b (610g) and the Nikon IFED(990g), which I could not resist.
I need to find a TC14B too
Oh, and while I was on this binge, I also ordered a BGN lecia-r 400mm f/6.8 Telyt with the stock--we'll see how that goes, hehe
My only other ED lens is the 180 AIS
bigger
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/5825345006_e42c5e62af_b.jpg
if the 300 is close I'll be very happy.
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 9096
Location: Houston, Texas
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5083
Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
If you don't mind mirror lenses, the Tamron SP 5.6/350 seems to be a very good performer for a light weight and size.
http://www.adaptall-2.org/lenses/06B.html
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Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:05 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
| cooltouch wrote: |
| Is the Nikon IFED a 300mm f/4.5 IF ED? |
Aparently it is an AI (not ais) edif. 4.5
I will check the serial when it arrives.
I guess the real killer is the AI ED. (non-if)
Only a few hundred made.
But I suspect it will be good.
Same seller also sending steinheil 135/2.8 auto-d
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gaeger
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 722
Location: Brier, Wash.
Expire: 2021-03-09
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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gaeger wrote:
Graham: Those Tamron shots are fantastic!
I've also owned the Nikkor AI that's not an IF design. It was OK but nothing special.
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Nikkor/Nikon 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, 55, 85, 105, 135, 180, 200, 300, 10-20, 18-35, 18-55, 28-50, 28-70, 24-85, 35-200, 50-300, 75-150, 80-200, 70-210, 70-300, 200-500
Minolta Rokkor 24, 28, 35, 45, 50, 58, 100, 135, 50-135, 300
My most interesting images | Full photostream
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:38 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
OK here's my first 300 test:
bigger
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/5837944985_5602ebdc83_b.jpg
100
one more:
bigger
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3515/5837907867_01176acaf9_b.jpg
obviously that's the AI ED IF 300/4.5
8030 made, last serial 208080, this one: 208022.
at 990 grams, the lightest nikon MF 300 made. AI-s version about 15 grams heavier I think.
okok 1 more:
bigger
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5039/5837988615_7aab798254_b.jpg
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stuey
Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Wales
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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stuey wrote:
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JohnBee
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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JohnBee wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| I love my Tair-3C, I have five other 300mm lenses, all smaller and lighter and all crap IQ by comparison, I never use them as a result and just put up with the size and weight of the Tair. |
That's some great IQ for such an affordable lens.
Can you tell me what version of the TAIR-3 this is?
ie. style, date and model(300A etc). |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:30 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
Now here is the Tamrom 300/5.6 SP 54B
That's a sheep guard dog who does not like me
100
lets try infinity
all HANDHELD. Looks like a great lens. Much lighter than the Nikon above (all nikon shots are on a tripod)
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Ooh, that Tamron looks very nice with good contrast for a 300.
This is my Tair, been well used but the optics still sparkle.
Very heavy but worth putting up with that for the IQ imho, on my EOS 10D it's a 450mm lens and is still useable handheld.
Ever since I got the Tair I feel my long lens needs are fulfilled.
It occured to me that a possible alternative for you to lugging a big and heavy telephoto up a mountain would be to use a copy/repro lens. These can often he had cheap, you seen Rodenstock, Agfa and Schneider ones quite often on ebay. Mount one on a small lightweight bellows and you have a long focal length lens that is pretty tiny.
This Rodenstock APO-Ronar 240mm should give great IQ on your camera:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rodenstock-Apo-Ronar-Lens-1-9-f-240mm-/140566163409?pt=UK_Photography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessories&hash=item20ba656fd1
To try this idea out, surplusshed sell a nice-looking 375mm copy lens for only 12 bucks:
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l10286.html
These small bellows are common and cheap, I have one, very easy to use handheld unlike larger bellows:
Just a suggestion, if size and weight are very important, a small bellows and some Rodenstock APO lenses (Ronar, Gerogon, Omegaron etc.) is very small for their focal lengths and there are a ton of them on ebay for 30-70ukp.
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
Great idea!
I'll need to study up on the mounts.
When you get a chance, link to some small bellows
How long could you go with cheap high iq copy lens?
Jeez what would be really cool is a small bellows with tilt shift ability, and a few different lenses.
Bjorn the nikon expert made one---not that small and has some incredible hyper doff shots on his site.
Where can I read up on the lenses ?
Ty sir
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I would try googling some terms like 'rodenstock apo lens'
It's not just rodenstocks, there are all kinds of longer length lenses for larger formats, I would definitely spend 12 bucks on that 375mm from the shed, no aperture in it but for that price be great to play with.
I got my bellows on ebay, there are lots of them, not sure if they are still made. There are tons of different models. The new ones from Hong Kong are probably very light as they are plastic and aluminium.
Here is an example in EOS mount, 35 dollars, they come in all modern mounts though:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Macro-Bellows-Canon-350D-30D-40D-5D-1D-400D-/320612032919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa5f76197
To tilt/shift, you need a flexible rubber gaiter, such as from a car steering arm and some pipe clips. put an extension tube in the back to mount to the camera and the lens in the front and you have a flexible mount like a crude lensbaby you could bend tilt and shift in all axis. One of those 12 dollar 375mm lenses would be ideal for experimenting with this type of contraption.
As for how long you can go, I have seen apo repro lenses in 600 and 800mm lengths but they are expensive. The longest that isn't a lot of money would be a 480mm I think.
Here is a mint Rodenstock APO-Ronar 480mm with less than a day left that you might get for under 100 bucks:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rodenstock-480mm-Apo-Ronar-L-ULF-Lens-8x10-/260798834800?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3cb8d26870
Another very good 480mm APO-Ronar for 150 euros from Holland:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rodenstock-Klimsch-Apo-Ronar-L-9-0-480mm-/200519726569?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2eafe835e9
So I suggest spending 12 bucks on the 375mm lens and getting a cheap set of bellows and trying out the concept, you might love it or hate it. I like bellows, I find the focussing accurate and I don't find them hard to handhld, especially that smaller model in my last post. I just weighed my copy of those bellows and they only weigh 262g with an M42-EOS adapter attached.
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
Looks like a thread mount on the 480---is that m42, or 39?
262 grams is good for the bellows--wonder what one of those 480s would weigh?
I have a 1.7 lb tripod now, which is strong enough for the nikon 300 easy,
Also I have a nikon f tilt adapter I might be able to use...
Just how many grams is that tair?
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Last edited by uhoh7 on Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Here is a beautiful 600mm Rodenstock APO-Ronar, cheap for what it is and quite rare:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rodenstock-APO-ronar-600mm-f-9-lens-very-rare-/320715434279?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item4aac212927
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RioRico
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 1120
Location: California or Guatemala or somewhere
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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RioRico wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Here is a mint Rodenstock APO-Ronar 480mm...
So I suggest spending 12 bucks on the 375mm lens and getting a cheap set of bellows and trying out the concept, you might love it or hate it.
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A cautionary note: Long EL's require lots of extension. I love using EL's on bellows for general photography, always with hoods. But these aren't teles. They need tubes as well as bellows, to approach the focal length. Shooting near infinity isn't too bad. Shooting closer can be clumsy.
For instance, although I have longer lenses, I'm most comfortable shooting a Wollensak Enlarging Raptar 162/4.5 on my K20D. My Bellowscope has a minimum extension of ~45mm. Register is another ~45mm. I add another 60mm of tubes and adapters behind the lens body. And I use a metal hood that's ~35mm deep. At infinity focus, the lens hangs on about 110mm of extension and protrudes ~170mm in front of the camera. At minimum focus of ~0.45m, the lens protrudes ~250mm. Lens alone weighs 280g; the hood+lens+tubes+bellows assembly weighs >600g.
My goal with EL's longer than 80mm is to add enough tubes for infinity focus when the bellows is at minimum extension. Racking-out the bellows thus allows for closer focusing. The necessary tubes turn out to be the focal length minus ~100mm. So for my Eastman Projection Anastigmat 190/4.5, that's 90mm. For a 375mm, that would be ~270mm of tubes. For a 480mm EL, it would be 380mm of tubes! Be sure to use a tripod or two, eh?
EDIT: I just took the Eastman 190 out for a spin. Because of the lens body width, I have glued a 15mm section from cheap PK macro tubes to it as an adapter, then mounted that on cheap PK bellows (minimum extension: ~35mm) and another 95mm of tubes. And I've taped a ~35mm thick lens hood to the front. At infinity focus, the outfit protrudes ~205mm from the camera. At minimum focus of ~0.5m, it protrudes ~315mm. The lens alone weighs ~300g; the entire hood+lens+tubes+bellows outfit weighs >900g.
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Last edited by RioRico on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:26 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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JohnBee
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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JohnBee wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
This is my Tair, been well used but the optics still sparkle.
Very heavy but worth putting up with that for the IQ imho, on my EOS 10D it's a 450mm lens and is still useable handheld.
Ever since I got the Tair I feel my long lens needs are fulfilled. |
Wow I had no idea the Photosniper version was this good!
Any idea if the 300A versions(Kiev-60) are the same optically? |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5083
Location: France
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I think all Tair 300mm lenses are the same optically, they are a triplet.
I take the point about the long tubes/bellows needed with a long lens like these. The practical limit with most bellows is around 300mm I think because as you say, a 300mm lens needs 300mm distance to the film/sensor.
However, one of the long repro type lenses with some tubes and bellows is perhaps a fairly substantially less bulky and heavy solution to a 400-600mm prime camera lens.
I don't know what the thread sizes are on the Rodenstocks, they will be quite large I think, they are designed to fit in a lens board.
For that 375mm 12 dollar cheap lens, I would be tempted to experiment with fitting it into a cardboard mailing tube approximately 340mm in length (375mm minus the camera's register). This is similar o the optical design of the Tair - the Tair is a 300mm triplet at the end of a 260mm-ish long tube, so putting a repro lens at the end of a tube is just aping that design. I just think it would be worth playing with this cheap setup first to gain some insight into whether a more expensive repro lens might be your cup of tea...
This is a Ross 8.5inch Xpress lens mounted on a set of M42 bellows. This lens equates to roughly 300mm on an EOS 10D and requires 90% of the bellows extension to hit infinity.
Not really tried it yet due to the bad weather but I did shoot a couple of quick test shots out the back door:
100% crop:
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Mir
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 983
Location: Montreal, Canada
Expire: 2017-09-30
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Mir wrote:
I'll be getting rid of my MINOLTA MC Rokkor-X 300/4.5....
'cause of the MD mount, i need to use those dreadful "optical adapter"...
never used it much.......
I was thinking of getting me a Pentacon 300/4...
Any opinions on the Pentacon ??
even though it's big and heavy... i don't mind....
And yes, i do regret selling my TAIR-3-PhS 300/4.5..............
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"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
MISC: Tamron SP 35-80 (01A), Auto Chinon Tomioka 1.4/55, Tokina AT-X 2.5/90, Tamron SP 5,6/300 (54B)
ZEISS: WG Distagon 2.8/25, WG Distagon 2.8/35 HFT, WG Planar HFT 1.4/50, Ultron 1.8/50, WG Sonnar 2.8/85, WG Sonnar HFT 2.8/135
VOIGTLÄNDER : Ultron Aspherical 1.8/21, Ultron 2/28, Nokton Aspherical 1.2/35, Nokton Classic 1.4/40, Nokton 1.2/50, Nokton Aspherical 1.5/50, Color-Heliar 2.5/75
MINOLTA: MD 3.5/35-70 Macro, MD 1.2/50, MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58, MD Macro 3.5/50
LEITZ: SUMMICRON-R 2/35 (II), SUMMICRON-R 2/50 (II), TELE ELMARIT-M 2,8/90 (Thin)
CANON RF: 2.8/28, 2/35, 1.2/50, 1.4/50, 1.5/50, Serenar 1.8/50, 2/85, 2/100, 3.5/100
LTM : YASHICA YASHINON 1.8/5cm, FUJINON L 2/5cm, CHIYODA KOGAKU SUPER ROKKOR 1.8/5cm, CHIYOKO SUPER ROKKOR C 2/5cm, TOKYO KOGAKU Topcor-S 2/5cm, Nippon Kogaku NIKKOR-H.C 2/5cm, KMZ Jupiter-8 2/5cm
DKL : VOIGTLÄNDER SKOPAREX 3,4/35, SEPTON 2/50, DYNAREX 3,4/90, SUPER-DYNAREX 4/135, Scheiner-Kreuznach Retina-Xenon 1,9/50
And a small Minolta AF set: 2.8/20, 1.4/35, 1.4/50, 2/100, 4.5/100-200
@we3fotography
@7plus_pictures
@_whats.that.car_ |
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Mir
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 983
Location: Montreal, Canada
Expire: 2017-09-30
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Mir wrote:
I also owned a BUSHNELL 300/5.5 for a short while..
Made in the late '70s....
Never tested it for fringing and CA....
But it had good colors and contrast and was somewhat compact,
more so then the tair !...
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"Obsta principiis, finem respice"
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
MISC: Tamron SP 35-80 (01A), Auto Chinon Tomioka 1.4/55, Tokina AT-X 2.5/90, Tamron SP 5,6/300 (54B)
ZEISS: WG Distagon 2.8/25, WG Distagon 2.8/35 HFT, WG Planar HFT 1.4/50, Ultron 1.8/50, WG Sonnar 2.8/85, WG Sonnar HFT 2.8/135
VOIGTLÄNDER : Ultron Aspherical 1.8/21, Ultron 2/28, Nokton Aspherical 1.2/35, Nokton Classic 1.4/40, Nokton 1.2/50, Nokton Aspherical 1.5/50, Color-Heliar 2.5/75
MINOLTA: MD 3.5/35-70 Macro, MD 1.2/50, MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58, MD Macro 3.5/50
LEITZ: SUMMICRON-R 2/35 (II), SUMMICRON-R 2/50 (II), TELE ELMARIT-M 2,8/90 (Thin)
CANON RF: 2.8/28, 2/35, 1.2/50, 1.4/50, 1.5/50, Serenar 1.8/50, 2/85, 2/100, 3.5/100
LTM : YASHICA YASHINON 1.8/5cm, FUJINON L 2/5cm, CHIYODA KOGAKU SUPER ROKKOR 1.8/5cm, CHIYOKO SUPER ROKKOR C 2/5cm, TOKYO KOGAKU Topcor-S 2/5cm, Nippon Kogaku NIKKOR-H.C 2/5cm, KMZ Jupiter-8 2/5cm
DKL : VOIGTLÄNDER SKOPAREX 3,4/35, SEPTON 2/50, DYNAREX 3,4/90, SUPER-DYNAREX 4/135, Scheiner-Kreuznach Retina-Xenon 1,9/50
And a small Minolta AF set: 2.8/20, 1.4/35, 1.4/50, 2/100, 4.5/100-200
@we3fotography
@7plus_pictures
@_whats.that.car_ |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
This is the Minolta MD 300/4.5 late
720 grams
100
I think this may be the all around best deal in 300s right now. It's 4.5, nearly as light as the tamron, and can be had for around 90USD.
Its internal focus and resembles the nikon 300/4.5, but shorter, thicker in body, narrower at the hood. No tripod mount.
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 733
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
^^^ No CA in the crop at all, but it looks like there's fairly heavy CA on the right side of the picture? |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
| AhamB wrote: |
| ^^^ No CA in the crop at all, but it looks like there's fairly heavy CA on the right side of the picture? |
here's original, please feel free to download, and crop to point out CA.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/5855494945_a210ea2de1_o.jpg
here is another test shot, handheld, at 4.5
(focus on his right elbow, hehe)
original
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55299472@N07/5857440436/sizes/o/in/photostream/
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It occurred to me tha these lenses you are testing are all sharp but the issue is largely with CA.
Perhaps if you can learn a good technique for CA removal in PP it would change things a lot for you when shooting these lenses?
Just a thought as you have some very sharp and contrast glass, I've been following your threads with interest, thanksfor the work you're doing.
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