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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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 Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: Trioplan again but different - sons of the same mother |
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woodrim wrote:
We all know that the Trioplan 2.8/100 silver model is the holy grail of bubble ring bokeh, and the little brother 2.9/50 does quite well, but I would like to know more about all the others. I will soon have a 3.5/75 (from Welta folding camera) and will thoroughly test that one. However, there are several more variations of focal length and max aperture. I would like this to include the lenses found on folding cameras as well - basically everything Trioplan.
I would imagine the lens design would be different in some respects by application. For instance, a folding camera lens is more compact, so must be different from a SLR, correct? The ultimate goal of this exercise is to understand what might be expected from each variant; specifically, bokeh and sharpness. I hope you will participate if you have a variant.
Currently, I have only shot with 2.9/50 Trioplan for Altix. I will start with pictures and comment on that lens. I have found my copy, which came to me in near mint condition, to be surprisingly sharp even at wide open. Very bright spots will display some glow similar to the big brother, but I think sharper. The bokeh rings are there and very good, but maybe not quite exactly the same as the 100mm. I do highly recommend the lens.
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Woodrim |
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GoldMark
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 185
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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GoldMark wrote:
A Trioplan is a Trioplan is a Trioplan. 
Like your pictures
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Bernhard
https://deramateurphotograph.de/ |
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Layer-cake
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 560
Location: Cape Town
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Layer-cake wrote:
I like them too;) decided to go the cheap route and got my hands on a broken Altix iv, gonna rip me the lens off and do a conversion!! |
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JJB
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 424
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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JJB wrote:
Why do I have a sudden urge to drink champagne? Lovely captures! |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
| GoldMark wrote: |
A Trioplan is a Trioplan is a Trioplan.
Like your pictures |
But is it? What I mentioned in my opening post is that they have been made in widely different focal lengths and configurations. I already know the difference in bokeh between the 2.8/100 and 2.9/50, which isn't drastic, but I do wonder about the others. I'm hoping there will be some folks here that have other Trioplan variants that car show images and report their impressions.
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Woodrim |
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3443
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
Do you think a Trioplan is very different from a Triotar, like from a broken rollei B 35 (40mm/3.5)?
There are quite some other triplets on old folders that could be interesting?
Or is there something really special in the build of a Trioplan that delivers this kind of bokeh?
Fundamentally different from Novar, Radionar, Agnar, Cassar etc.?
The samples make me very curious about that, but I don't feel ready yet to dismantle my old folders! |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
I don't know the answer to that yet, but hope we learn some things from this thread. As I mentioned, I have a 3.5/75 coming that I will have to adapt, then test. That lens is from a folding camera. I've also seen a 2.9/75 and a 2.9/105 on a folding camera. I hesitate in buying too many until I've seen some results.
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Woodrim |
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3443
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
It is a bit exciting, and I have some oldies laying around that might be interesting.
Like an Agfa Isoly III boxcamera, with Agnar 3.5/60mm.
Mmm ... a bit too charming to take it apart. |
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kenetik
Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 521
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:59 am Post subject: |
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kenetik wrote:
You're pics are amazing Woodrim. Even when you're playing with Bokeh!
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:17 am Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Thank you.
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Woodrim |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 1432
Expire: 2017-05-23
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:22 am Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:30 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
f you take lenses apart, as some are want to do from time to time, you will discover that some have the sides of the elements painted black, some don't. That, coupled with how well designed the internal baffling is, gives you the answer to why some lenses have these outlines on the bokeh circles.
I've got 8 or 9 triplets for my 6x9century, some Schneider Radionars, some Meyer Trioplans, some Kodak Anastigmats etc. Some have this bright outline, some don't. Some of my tessar types have the bright outline, some don't.
Therefore it's not a matter of the lens's formula, but of specifics of how it's constructed that matter in this phenomenon.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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JohnBar
Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 581
Location: Liverpool
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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JohnBar wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
f you take lenses apart, as some are want to do from time to time, you will discover that some have the sides of the elements painted black, some don't. That, coupled with how well designed the internal baffling is, gives you the answer to why some lenses have these outlines on the bokeh circles.
I've got 8 or 9 triplets for my 6x9century, some Schneider Radionars, some Meyer Trioplans, some Kodak Anastigmats etc. Some have this bright outline, some don't. Some of my tessar types have the bright outline, some don't.
Therefore it's not a matter of the lens's formula, but of specifics of how it's constructed that matter in this phenomenon. |
+1
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 1633
Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| f you take lenses apart, as some are want to do from time to time, you will discover that some have the sides of the elements painted black, some don't. That, coupled with how well designed the internal baffling is, gives you the answer to why some lenses have these outlines on the bokeh circles..... |
No, it depends on optical construction. Lenses with background soap bubble bokeh have over corrected spherical aberration. They have smooth bokeh in foreground.
The Meyer Diaplan has the central lens with blackend sides. Front and back lens have uncoated sides.
Even after blackening the front and back lens the bokeh effect stays the same.
There are lenses with variable spherical aberration, like the Nikon DC Nikkor 105 and 135mm f/2.0. There one could control the bokeh behaviour.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You can also alter the amount of spherical aberration of a humble tessar, you simply increase the distance between the front two elements. It's an old trick of large format photographers, they did it to get a softer more glowy look on portraits if they didn't have a dedicated portrait lens.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 1432
Expire: 2017-05-23
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:50 am Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Found this very interesting Trioplan-Primotar image comparison...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gideonpp/11552486005/
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Woodrim |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:52 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yeah, the Primotar 135 has the same bokeh circles as a Trioplan. I pointed that out a couple of years ago. Primotar prices haven't gone up so I guess no-one noticed.
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IAZA
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 2587
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: |
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IAZA wrote:
That man Gideon, made a modification on Primotar, I saw his works on facebook
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
| IAZA wrote: |
That man Gideon, made a modification on Primotar, I saw his works on facebook |
Really? Can you point us to that?
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Woodrim |
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Tedat
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 800
Location: Berlin/Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Tedat wrote:
from your flickr link:
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| meyer primotar mod vs trioplan |
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Jan
flickr
Sony A7RM2
Contax T*: Distagon 4/18, Distagon 2/28, Distagon 1.4/35, PC-Distagon 2.8/35, Planar 1.4/50, Planar 1.4/85, Planar 2/100, Planar 2/135, S-Planar 2.8/60, Tessar 2.8/45, Mirotar 8/500, Vario Sonnar 3.4/35-70, Vario Sonnar 4.5-5.6/100-300
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Konica Hexanon AR: 2.8/21, 1.2/57
Other: Minolta F2.8 [T4.5] 135mm STF, Meopta Meostigmat 1.4/70, Tokina AT-X 2.5/90.. and lots of early M42 Yashinon, Rikenon and Mamiya lenses |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
| Tedat wrote: |
from your flickr link:
| Quote: |
| meyer primotar mod vs trioplan |
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Aha, I had read that as short for model. I will ask the fellow what he did.
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Woodrim |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
I have just purchased a Diaplan 2.8/100. I will be able to provide images, but unfortunately I do not have the 2.8/100 Trioplan for comparison.
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Woodrim |
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