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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Tamron 200mm compact lenses |
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luisalegria wrote:
This is a curious creature - Its a very early Tamron T-mount lens, it appears to be a model F0-63 introduced in 1963. It seems to be a fairly uncommon lens in this early Tamron product line, perhaps even rarer to have been sold under the Tamron brand.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.tamron.co.jp/data/old-lens/olm200f6_3.htm
It is an extremely simple lens, with just a focusing mount and a diaphragm (manual only, not even preset), 3 elements in two groups according to the Tamron site. In other words, its a Wundertute ! Just a small one. It must have been very cheap back then.
Its extremely light and it fits very nicely in a jacket pocket in its neat soft leather case. If you want to carry a long lens while going light, its a good alternative to an extender. And if one is going to stop down anyway, well, this one comes stopped down already !
Its performance isn't bad I think, though not particularly good either - all at f/6.3
The bird -
crop -
_________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work.
Last edited by luisalegria on Tue May 01, 2018 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Just acquired one of these. As Luis describes this lens is real old school: slow and simple. I just had a sortie around the garden and took this with an extension tube on, Samsung NX20, f8, exported from LR (I mainly needed to reduce noise, the NX20 gets noisy quickly when the ASA is upped, this was at 800ASA). A result to prompt me to see what else it can do...
_________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
Corking, marcus . |
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3460 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
Great result Marcus, some old lenses really can surprise you! _________________ "I've got a Nikon camera, I like to take a photograph" - Paul Simon |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1674
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Luis, your shots are awesome! I imagine, you applied some corrections? Incredible how a triplet may produce such pop-effect. Marcus, the same is yours! |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Hi Alex
Nothing but a little exposure or contrast.
I don't recall exactly what anymore because this is from quite a few years ago.
I shot these on the 6mp Pentax K100D.
I didn't think this was a particularly sharp lens, though that may just be my copy.
I think I did everything at f/6.3, I had no reason to do otherwise. From what Marcus posted it seems to improve considerably at f/8! And it seems also does well on extension rings - was that what you did Marcus?
This is not exactly a triplet, other than having three elements, its not a Cooke-type.
Its got a cemented pair in front and a single element in back, a simplified telephoto. All the cheap Japanese 200-500mm telephotos are like that, though usually the rear group is another cemented pair - 4 elements in 2 groups. This one has such a small max aperture I guess they thought to get away with just one piece of glass.
A proper Cooke triplet, at reasonably small apertures, can be very sharp indeed in the center, the big limitation is towards the edges of the field. You can see this best in something like a folding camera with a 105mm triplet covering a 6x9 negative, to stress its coverage. Compared to a Tessar at even f/8 the triplets corners will be much worse. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_lens_design#/media/File:Typtelelens.png
This is the sort of formula this uses, except that in this case the rear group is just a single element, not a pair. A very simple telephoto. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1674
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Thank you, Luis, for an exhaustive and appealing explanation! Having NEX I am not much attracted by over-135mm lenses. But longer I meet memebers' telephoto shots better idea it gives of the power and resolution of such way of making photography. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Yes Luis, that was with a ~10mm extension tube. Bean bag on a picnic table. Focus distance was around four feet.
My impression of this lens is that it is already sharp at f6.3. As and when we get a little sunshine around here I'll see if I can take my usual test pics of the castle turret and post them on my test page.
I got two good lenses in the ~$15 bundle this came in: the photax-paragon 35mm f3.5 is impressing me too! _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock...
Last edited by marcusBMG on Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
I've now done some test pics. My conclusions so far are:
- this lens is a tad softer at f6.3, nothing between f8 and f11.
- sharpness is good. Actually when I browse through my test pics of the castle turret with various lenses the similarity between the best of them prompts me to suspect that the limiting factor may be the camera (+ distance, atmospherics etc...). In any case this 200mm makes the grade IMO as one of those "best" lenses.
- this lens is remarkably good in terms of fringing, in spite of its simple design. The pic of the white boat has numerous aspects to prompt fringing, haloes, coma etc - nada. Click on it to see full sized, look especially at the relections off railings etc. that are normally guaranteed to show up PF.
Seagull pics specially for you Luis. Corroborates this lens likes (certainly doesn't dislike) closer focus.
f6.3, f8, f11 crops, 1:1 pixel peep.
Resized, f8.
Different gull, same distance, 1:1 pixel peep crop (update: on my PC this isn't showing correctly - should be 1334 pix wide [try right clicking and select view image] )
_________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16641 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
_________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 712 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Old Tamron 200/6.3 - a mini-Wundertute |
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55 wrote:
Another bump for this old topic. I appear to have a variation of this lens. Mine is labelled Ashreh.
It seems to perform about the same as those owned by luisalegria and marcusBMG. But my lens is different because it has just two elements instead of three. At the front there's a doublet, but behind the iris there's no glass - just a baffle.
#1
Even so, it's sharp enough for me and I'm happy with the results I've had.
Both of these were at f/8 on my Canon 5D, and the red breasted sapsucker shot is a 50% crop:
#2
#3
The 2.5m minimum focus distance is a bit long, but otherwise I enjoy using this old, simple lens.
I've been looking to buy the Tamron version so I can compare it to my Ashreh, but I haven't been able to find one yet.
Tim
Last edited by 55 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:23 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Looking good!
It could be that on mine the rear element is just a flat.
I'd have to dismantle it to be sure.
Otherwise yours looks exactly like the Tamron brand.
IIRC
Ashreh Supply Corp., Brooklyn, NY
Was a photographic products wholesaler.
It may still be in business.
They had a bunch of lenses from multiple makers just like Spiratone, Aetna, etc. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 712 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:13 am Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
Looking good!
It could be that on mine the rear element is just a flat.
I'd have to dismantle it to be sure.
Otherwise yours looks exactly like the Tamron brand.
IIRC
Ashreh Supply Corp., Brooklyn, NY
Was a photographic products wholesaler.
It may still be in business.
They had a bunch of lenses from multiple makers just like Spiratone, Aetna, etc. |
Thank you. Can you please explain what you mean by "flat"?
When I received my 200 as part of a camera lot, I'd never heard of Ashreh before and I'd never handled such a simple looking lens. I've been surprised at how good the image quality can be and at how much I enjoy using it.
Regarding Ashreh, a quick search turned up some tidbits:
"Ashreh Supply Corporation of 425 Broadway, NY, NY. Filed for incorporation in New York on Oct 7 1964, and status is listed as active."
I found the information here:
http://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/page0018.htm |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Interesting variant there 55. It's not exactly the same as my "tasei kogaku" original, the focus and aperture rings on yours (update: and Luis' tamron badged one) aren't as wide. But in other respects it is the same, and I just unscrewed the end of mine (these simple old lenses often unscrew into segments) to look at the end element and yes, that's just a flat glass plate whose absence would have little or no effect (looking at your pic are you sure there isn't some glass in that disk by the iris?). I double checked the length of the lens yep the focal plane is pretty much exactly 200mm from the front element (so no "telephoto").
Lens pics here.
Luis: did you review the f5.9 version, which I now have too?
Addendum - one of this years tulips, this time with the f5.9 version, f8 with short extension tube, samsung NX20, pp LR3.6.
_________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Good for you Marcus!
Thanks for checking.
Yes lensmakers sometimes put flats - that is, just uncurved pieces of glass - in the back of some lenses to prevent dust from entering.
So this thing is a doublet.
No, I never got the 5.9, missed it on auction a few times.
Yours looks very good! _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 712 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:33 am Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
marcusBMG wrote: |
. . . and I just unscrewed the end of mine (these simple old lenses often unscrew into segments) to look at the end element and yes, that's just a flat glass plate whose absence would have little or no effect (looking at your pic are you sure there isn't some glass in that disk by the iris?). . .
Addendum - one of this years tulips, this time with the f5.9 version, f8 with short extension tube, samsung NX20, pp LR3.6.
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Thanks for the information, Marcus. I didn't know about flats. And yes, I'm certain the front doublet is the only glass in my lens. I actually took the lens apart to be absolutely sure!
(Edit: And I've added a clearer picture of the interior.)
And your photo... I shall never tire of tulips! Lovely. And I had to smile when I saw you mention an extension tube. I started carrying a tube in my bag only after I began using my 200 f/6.3. I enjoy using my Ashreh for flowers, but the 2.5m minimum focus distance is often too long.
luisalegria wrote: |
. . . Yes lensmakers sometimes put flats - that is, just uncurved pieces of glass - in the back of some lenses to prevent dust from entering. . . |
Thank you, Luis. That makes sense. I remember my Ashreh had a lot of dust inside when I received it.
Tim
Last edited by 55 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16641 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:11 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
_________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Well Luis I'll just chip in with an eval here - you could change the title of the thread to tamron 200's?
The fact is there is very little difference between the two lenses. My impression is that the f5.9 is just a tad less sharp. These are my standard castle turret test crops (now updated). Samsung NX20, f5.9, f8, f11.
This resized crop of another tower with lots of tourists came out nice and sharp - f11.
_________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock...
Last edited by marcusBMG on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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pdccameras
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 825 Location: Putnam, CT
Expire: 2014-08-11
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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pdccameras wrote:
Here are a few quick pics with the Taisei Kogaku Tamron 200mm f/5.9 mm version, with plano element in the rear position. All photos were taken on a Sony A7 Mii at ISO800. All but the photos of the gate house building and the small white church were taken wide open. A totally enjoyable, and very easy to carry 200mm lens!
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
_________________ Canon 5D Mii, Canon 40D, Canon 350D IR, Sony A7 Mii, Sony Alpha-6000, a ton of lenses: AF & MF and too many cameras to count, all formats: 110 - 4x5. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1316 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Nice. And the bokeh is a bit swirly in pic 1! _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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pdccameras
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 825 Location: Putnam, CT
Expire: 2014-08-11
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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pdccameras wrote:
The physical look of this f/5.9 version seems a bit different than the f/6.3 version.
P.
_________________ Canon 5D Mii, Canon 40D, Canon 350D IR, Sony A7 Mii, Sony Alpha-6000, a ton of lenses: AF & MF and too many cameras to count, all formats: 110 - 4x5. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:45 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Changed the thread name to "Tamron 200mm compact lenses"
To better describe the contents.
These are variants of very simple early T-mount Tamron (Taisei Kogaku) lenses, being of doublet design with or without an optical "flat" in the rear barrel, of f/6.3 or f/5.9 max aperture.
Obviously designed to appeal to the low end of the market. Uncommon in general and it seems one of the few Tamron-made lenses that is more common in Tamron/Taisei branding than under distributors names, though as we see there were some. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
I have a Soligor branded one coming in:
_________________ pentaxian |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 712 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:40 am Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
D1N0 wrote: |
I have a Soligor branded one coming in
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With the original box? Nice!
I'd really enjoy seeing some period literature for theses lenses to see how they were presented / marketed.
My Ashreh f/6.3 copy is one of my favorite lenses. The bare bones simplicity really appeals to me. And I love its wide open rendering for flowers and yard scenes: sharp enough, with some vignetting and occasional swirls.
Here are two garden shots from today - on Sony A7ii, both at f/6.3 with extension tube. Some color and contrast added.
#1
#2
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