Zeiss Ikonta vs Bessa II

[Attila]

Any experience ?
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Olympus E-1,Bessa L,Bessa RF Skopar 10,5cm,Besa I Color Skopar 105mm,Olympus OM2n,Nikon FA,Yashica Eletro 35 GN,
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Carl Zeiss Jena:Flektogon 2.8/20mm,4/25mm,2.4/35,2.8/65mm,4.5/4cm Tessar, 8/500mm Fernobjektiv
Pancolar 1.4/55mm,1.8/50mm,1.8/80mm,Tessar 2.8/50mm,Biotar 2/58mm,1.5/75mm,1.5/7,5cm
Carl Zeiss: Sonnar 2.8/135,2.8/180mm,Tessar 4/135mm
Nikon: 3.5/20mm,2.8/28mm,1.4/35mm,1.4/50mm,1.2/50mm,2/50mm,1.8/105mm,2.5/105mm,4/200mm macro,4.5/300mm
Pentax: Pentax 1.2/50mm,1.8/85mm,4/200mm
Helios: Helios-40 1.5/8,5cm,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm
Olympus OM: 3.5/18mm,3.5/21mm,1.4/50mm,3.5/55mm macro,2.8/135mm,2/90mm macro,35-70mm,60-250mm
Meyer: 4.5/35mm Primagon,Primoplan 1.9/58mm,1.9/75mm,2.8/100mm,Orestegor 2.8/135mm,4.5/40 Helioplan
Leica: 4/100 Macro Elmar,2.8/90 Elmarit last version
Please visit my Ebay shop to support my reviews !

[Sevo]

Either are fine - at least in Germany, Bessas are usually in a better condition which may reflect their typical usage pattern (being more affordable and more likely to be a middle class family camera where Icontas were an enthusiast item).

Besides, there is a long history of Ikontas - pre-WWII ones usually need lots of service, as their exposed gears tend to have suffered over the course of time. The coupled rangefinder contemporaries of the Bessa II were the Super Ikonta III/IV, which tend to be more expensive than mid-range Bessas if they are in a useable state.

Personally I'd rather get a non-rangefinder folder (Bessa I or plain Ikonta) - you'll pay a hefty surcharge for the integrated rangefinder, and have quite a risk of hitting upon one where the coupling has developed inaccuracies that cannot be fixed short of butchering a second body or re-manufacturing parts, while the actual cameras often need little more than patching the bellows and CLA'ing the shutter.

As far as lenses are concerned, Voigtländer and Zeiss had quite the same standard - either triplets are decent when stopped down, but not really exciting, while the Tessar and Skopar are equally excellent. The 2.8 Tessar as well as the Heliar and APO-Lanthar are top notch even by modern standards, but you'll rarely find one without a collectors price tag, and they are rather wasted on a folder - it takes a Linhof to bring film path precision, lens alignment, internal diffusion and shutter precision up to that level, so you may as well settle for a Tessar type.

HTH Sevo

[Attila]

Many thanks! Nice to see you here!
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Olympus E-1,Bessa L,Bessa RF Skopar 10,5cm,Besa I Color Skopar 105mm,Olympus OM2n,Nikon FA,Yashica Eletro 35 GN,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Zeiss Jena:Flektogon 2.8/20mm,4/25mm,2.4/35,2.8/65mm,4.5/4cm Tessar, 8/500mm Fernobjektiv
Pancolar 1.4/55mm,1.8/50mm,1.8/80mm,Tessar 2.8/50mm,Biotar 2/58mm,1.5/75mm,1.5/7,5cm
Carl Zeiss: Sonnar 2.8/135,2.8/180mm,Tessar 4/135mm
Nikon: 3.5/20mm,2.8/28mm,1.4/35mm,1.4/50mm,1.2/50mm,2/50mm,1.8/105mm,2.5/105mm,4/200mm macro,4.5/300mm
Pentax: Pentax 1.2/50mm,1.8/85mm,4/200mm
Helios: Helios-40 1.5/8,5cm,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm
Olympus OM: 3.5/18mm,3.5/21mm,1.4/50mm,3.5/55mm macro,2.8/135mm,2/90mm macro,35-70mm,60-250mm
Meyer: 4.5/35mm Primagon,Primoplan 1.9/58mm,1.9/75mm,2.8/100mm,Orestegor 2.8/135mm,4.5/40 Helioplan
Leica: 4/100 Macro Elmar,2.8/90 Elmarit last version
Please visit my Ebay shop to support my reviews !

[Nesster]

I fully agree about the lens thing, and partially about the range finder... some well preserved Ikontas have a usable one, I've had opportunity to peer through them. Plus that mechanism is just cool.

The Bessa I and II are large cameras, 6x9 negatives, though if lucky you can get one with the 6x4.5 insert - turns it into a short tele camera too. I think with Ikontas you can get physically smaller folders, with the 6x6 or even 6x4.5 frame sizes.

I have the Bessa I with the triplet lens - I wish it were a Skopar - and don't find guess focusing too difficult. I do have an auxiliary range finder, but it's a bit of a pain to use. I've never had the opportunity to peer through a '50's Bessa II, I'd love to though.

An option to consider, if the lenses are of interest - for me they are - is one of the TLRs from either company. You're likely to get better alignment and unit rather than front cell focusing.

Hi, Sevo!

Here's an example of Bessa 1 6x9





and one with the 6x4.5 mask

_________________
Camera Fetishism:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nesster/sets/72157601067248451/

[Attila]

Thank you for samples!
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Olympus E-1,Bessa L,Bessa RF Skopar 10,5cm,Besa I Color Skopar 105mm,Olympus OM2n,Nikon FA,Yashica Eletro 35 GN,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Zeiss Jena:Flektogon 2.8/20mm,4/25mm,2.4/35,2.8/65mm,4.5/4cm Tessar, 8/500mm Fernobjektiv
Pancolar 1.4/55mm,1.8/50mm,1.8/80mm,Tessar 2.8/50mm,Biotar 2/58mm,1.5/75mm,1.5/7,5cm
Carl Zeiss: Sonnar 2.8/135,2.8/180mm,Tessar 4/135mm
Nikon: 3.5/20mm,2.8/28mm,1.4/35mm,1.4/50mm,1.2/50mm,2/50mm,1.8/105mm,2.5/105mm,4/200mm macro,4.5/300mm
Pentax: Pentax 1.2/50mm,1.8/85mm,4/200mm
Helios: Helios-40 1.5/8,5cm,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm
Olympus OM: 3.5/18mm,3.5/21mm,1.4/50mm,3.5/55mm macro,2.8/135mm,2/90mm macro,35-70mm,60-250mm
Meyer: 4.5/35mm Primagon,Primoplan 1.9/58mm,1.9/75mm,2.8/100mm,Orestegor 2.8/135mm,4.5/40 Helioplan
Leica: 4/100 Macro Elmar,2.8/90 Elmarit last version
Please visit my Ebay shop to support my reviews !

[Nesster]

My pleasure
_________________
Camera Fetishism:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nesster/sets/72157601067248451/

[Laurence]

I had the Zeiss Ikonta Ercona example (east German) for about 10 months, before I gave it to a "hurting" college student (who still uses it with good results!).

The lens was simply gorgeous in its output (Tessar) and the camera was built very well. I would think it would be a long-lasting camera after CLA, if even needed.

Example:

Velvia Sand in Evening Light

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Cameras in Use: Yashica Mat 124 w/ Yashinon 80/3.5, Revueflex 3003 w/ M42 lenses, Yashica Electro 35 w/ Yashinon 1.7, Voigtlander Bessa R w/ APO Lanthar 90/3.5, Contaflex 126 w/ Zeiss Pantar, Tessar, Sonnar, and Distagon

[Nesster]

Gawd, thats gorgeous!
_________________
Camera Fetishism:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nesster/sets/72157601067248451/

[Attila]

Wow! Gorgeous!! How to compare with Yashica MAT 124g?
_________________

Olympus E-1,Bessa L,Bessa RF Skopar 10,5cm,Besa I Color Skopar 105mm,Olympus OM2n,Nikon FA,Yashica Eletro 35 GN,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Zeiss Jena:Flektogon 2.8/20mm,4/25mm,2.4/35,2.8/65mm,4.5/4cm Tessar, 8/500mm Fernobjektiv
Pancolar 1.4/55mm,1.8/50mm,1.8/80mm,Tessar 2.8/50mm,Biotar 2/58mm,1.5/75mm,1.5/7,5cm
Carl Zeiss: Sonnar 2.8/135,2.8/180mm,Tessar 4/135mm
Nikon: 3.5/20mm,2.8/28mm,1.4/35mm,1.4/50mm,1.2/50mm,2/50mm,1.8/105mm,2.5/105mm,4/200mm macro,4.5/300mm
Pentax: Pentax 1.2/50mm,1.8/85mm,4/200mm
Helios: Helios-40 1.5/8,5cm,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm
Olympus OM: 3.5/18mm,3.5/21mm,1.4/50mm,3.5/55mm macro,2.8/135mm,2/90mm macro,35-70mm,60-250mm
Meyer: 4.5/35mm Primagon,Primoplan 1.9/58mm,1.9/75mm,2.8/100mm,Orestegor 2.8/135mm,4.5/40 Helioplan
Leica: 4/100 Macro Elmar,2.8/90 Elmarit last version
Please visit my Ebay shop to support my reviews !

[Nesster]

Jeez, I'd have to get some Velvia and go visit paradise
_________________
Camera Fetishism:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nesster/sets/72157601067248451/

[Farside]

Superb, Larry. There's plenty of life in the old folders yet.
Mind you, some people could take a good pic with an old shoebox.
_________________
Dave

The Lenses of Farside

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[Attila]