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Your best 28..and how you got there :)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks

Recently changed my mind and gave those wide lenses a try. So after a 35mm, i bought a 28MM Distagon in C/Y mount. This proved to be quite efficient, here shot on a Contax RX with Portra 400 film



PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shoot more at 28 than any FL Smile


Creek and Rocks by unoh7, Sumicron


PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhoh7 wrote:
I shoot more at 28 than any FL Smile


I've tried it on my last trip to Italy to restrict myself to this FL. I just had my GR lens/sensor module 28mm/2.5 in my GXR and it worked out more than just good.
However, nothing to show here as it's actually 18.3mm and AF.
I just wanted to try the typical Ricoh GR feeling.... Wink
It's no bad concept. Ricoh has the GR single focus 28mm premium camera already since 1996 (film) till date (APS-C/16MP digital).
There is even a RF lens in LTM called "GR" from Ricoh in 28mm/2.8, though it's not really cheap.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking of getting a konica hexanon 28mm AR, anyone know how the flaring is?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ uhoh7

Hat off


PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sch8mid wrote:
@ uhoh7

Hat off


Mine too! Like 1 small


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to extend the 28 thread..this vintage Vivitar Tokina T4/TX that has all this bubble bokeh in the shot provided? It has a niche.....a bubbly one at that...
Any lens that "can't" do something unique/differently from the rest? That's a boring lens...to me. So this thing that one lens is all that it takes to satisfy some, it won't with me. There's always something, always something because with so many versions out there in so many variations, how could I be satisfied with just one when they beg you to try them like they do?



Last edited by wildlight images on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 pm; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My best 28mm lens is the Voigtlaender Ultron 28mm/F1.9 aspherical one in LTM. It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.

However, as you can see here: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html actually all of my 7 28mm prime lenses are performing quite well and there is no really bad one among them.

My thread about the CV lens alone: http://forum.mflenses.com/voigtlander-ultron-28mm-f1-9-aspherical-in-m39-ltm-t72400.html

Example in color and B&W:

#1


#2


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't used a 28mm too often until recently when I rediscovered its versatility on an APS-C Canon M6. Previously had two 28mm Yashica ML. Both delivered very good colors and depth, The later serial number is the sharper of the two. I liked the Yashica quite well, but still only used it intermittently. About a month ago I got a Contax Zeiss 28/2.8 Distagon. I find it is on my camera a lot and expect it to stay there.

Here's a no pp jpg shot from last week:



PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't used a 28mm too often until recently when I rediscovered its versatility on an APS-C Canon M6. Previously had two 28mm Yashica ML. Both delivered very good colors and depth, The later serial number is the sharper of the two. I liked the Yashica quite well, but still only used it intermittently. About a month ago I got a Contax Zeiss 28/2.8 Distagon. I find it is on my camera a lot and expect it to stay there.

Here's a no pp jpg shot from last week:



PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
My best 28mm lens is the Voigtlaender Ultron 28mm/F1.9 aspherical one in LTM. It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.

However, as you can see here: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html actually all of my 7 28mm prime lenses are performing quite well and there is no really bad one among them.

In the test linked above you use APS-C cameras. When you are saying about the Voigtländer "It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.", are you talking about APS-C as well? If so, it would be useful to specify that clearly, since vintage 28mm lenses often do have their weaknesses on 24MP FF cameras. Early [7/7] constructions do often have quite some problems in the field (around 10-15mm from the center); later [5/5] constructions usually have a much better field, but sometimes the extreme corners are a bit worse.

Stephan


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
tb_a wrote:
My best 28mm lens is the Voigtlaender Ultron 28mm/F1.9 aspherical one in LTM. It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.

However, as you can see here: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html actually all of my 7 28mm prime lenses are performing quite well and there is no really bad one among them.

In the test linked above you use APS-C cameras. When you are saying about the Voigtländer "It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.", are you talking about APS-C as well? If so, it would be useful to specify that clearly, since vintage 28mm lenses often do have their weaknesses on 24MP FF cameras. Early [7/7] constructions do often have quite some problems in the field (around 10-15mm from the center); later [5/5] constructions usually have a much better field, but sometimes the extreme corners are a bit worse.

Stephan


Not everyone is obsessed with corner performance.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
tb_a wrote:
My best 28mm lens is the Voigtlaender Ultron 28mm/F1.9 aspherical one in LTM. It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.

However, as you can see here: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html actually all of my 7 28mm prime lenses are performing quite well and there is no really bad one among them.

In the test linked above you use APS-C cameras. When you are saying about the Voigtländer "It's already usable and sharp wide open across the frame.", are you talking about APS-C as well? If so, it would be useful to specify that clearly, since vintage 28mm lenses often do have their weaknesses on 24MP FF cameras. Early [7/7] constructions do often have quite some problems in the field (around 10-15mm from the center); later [5/5] constructions usually have a much better field, but sometimes the extreme corners are a bit worse.

Stephan


Sorry, I've forgotten to mention that I'm talking about my Ricoh GXR-M APS-C camera.

However, there are anyway only 2 camera brands on the marked which perform excellently with wide angle RF lenses such as the Voigtländer Ultron or the Orion-15 developed for film cameras: My discontinued GXR-M and several Leica models. As I didn't make up my mind up to now whether to invest in a FF Leica to make serious use of my RF lenses on FF as well and as a Sony A7 would be rather useless for me because of the poor WA RF-lens performance, I can't say anything about their FF-performance from own experience.

I can only confirm that the Minolta AF 28/2.8 lens performs excellently on my A850 FF camera.

BTW, at least Ken Rockwell says surprisingly that the CV-lens when used stopped down from F4 onwards you won't see any difference to the latest Leica 28mm/F2.8 ASPH lens for several thousand Euro. Just wide open the CV lens shows some softness in the very corners on a FF Leica.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be so surprised, Leica lenses are ridiculously overpriced and often don't perform as well as the hype and price suggests.

For instance, the Summicron 2/28 has smeary corners at infinity at f8, it costs about 3000USD

The Minolta AF 2.8/28 has good corners at infinity and f8 and costs 50USD.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Don't be so surprised, Leica lenses are ridiculously overpriced and often don't perform as well as the hype and price suggests.

For instance, the Summicron 2/28 has smeary corners at infinity at f8, it costs about 3000USD

The Minolta AF 2.8/28 has good corners at infinity and f8 and costs 50USD.


Well, Leica lenses perform best on a Leica cameras, particularly when we are talking about FF. You are most probably referring to the A7 performance which is rather poor. But that's caused by the camera (thick filter stack) and not the lens. Almost every RF WA lens where the rear element is too close to the sensor performs badly on the A7-series. Even some APS-C cameras struggle with that issue with certain RF lenses.

As I already stated before, for best corner to corner performance with WA RF-lenses go for a real Leica or the poor man's Leica (Ricoh GXR-M). Wink

However, I fully agree that the Minolta AF performs excellently on FF, at least on my Sony A850.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Don't be so surprised, Leica lenses are ridiculously overpriced and often don't perform as well as the hype and price suggests.

For instance, the Summicron 2/28 has smeary corners at infinity at f8, it costs about 3000USD

The Minolta AF 2.8/28 has good corners at infinity and f8 and costs 50USD.


iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

Not everyone is obsessed with corner performance.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1981, there were virtually more 28's then one could shake a stick at. One thing that really sticks out to me and reminds me constantly, is how extremely proud Nikon is/was.... Almost 40 years ago, on the verge of auto-focus take-over and a sort of pinnacle era for manual focus, RETAIL prices then had more effect on shaping the long held opinions we have to today. Let's face it, perceived value has always been the leader in forming opinions. It's more than interesting to compare the results people achieve today with what lenses cost originally.... inflation since that time is approx 171% (2018)


Wide-Angle Lens Prices in 1981

• Nikkor 28/2...$357.95
• Nikkor 28/2.8...$254.95
• Nikkor 28/3.5...$153.95
• Nikkor E 28/2.8...$78.95
• Canon FD SSC 28/2...$232.95
• Canon FD SSC 28/2.8...$97.95
• Minolta MD 28/2...$223.95
• Minolta MD 28/2.8...$94.95
• Pentax 28/2...$179.95
• Pentax 28/2.8...$88.95
• Contax T* 28/2...$319.95
• Contax T* 28/2.8...$183.50
• Yashica ML 28/2.8...$98.95
• Yashica YUS 28/2.8...$51.95
• Ricoh 28/2.8...$69.95
• Konica 28/1.8...$279.95
• Konica 28/3.5...$70.95
• Fuji 28/3.5...$99.95
• Olympus 28/2.8...$93.95
• Olympus 28/3.5...$70.95

Wide-Angle Lens Prices in 1981 3rd Party/Misc Manufacture
• Vivitar 28/2...$89.50
• Vivitar 28/2.8...$67.95
• Vivitar 28/1.9 Series 1...$174.95
• Kiron 28/2...$104.50
• Tamron 28/2.5 adapatall-2....$89.50
• Soligor CD 28/2.8...$93.95 (8-8 and a 6-6 Sun and Mitakon versions - excellent example of skewed opinions and reviews)
• Soligor G/S 28/2.5...$105.95 (Gold Series by Sun)
• Tokina 28/2.8...$79.95 - EL=$54.95 SL=$66.95 (another example of 3 versions of the same focal length.. skewed opinions)
• Sigma 28/2.8...$54.50
• Rokina 28/2.8...$69.95
• Chinon 28/2.8...$69.95

"I don't care what Dxo measured, photodo, or what Forum said what about what...what "I" care about is what I find pleasing, those are just guides and as guides they mislead me sometimes, and that's OK ... the true reason is I didn't find a highly measured lens...pleasing for me in the end. There are certainly other variables too, but not pleasing is a deal breaker...for 28's in 1981 there was no shortage of every niche being pleased at all"

These retail values in 1981 formed and shaped opinions involving lenses, the perception of a high price convinces most people of it having the highest performance and retail has always worked on that principle, in 40 years opinions based on the price principle become a reality whether they are true or not....that's the way people are in general and why some lenses have mystifying values. One of the better examples I can think of is the Minolta 250mm Mirror, I think cost and a limited supply triggered this sense of price equals performance to enhance it wildly as the value is far beyond it's actual worth by a long shot in some cases..... ridiculous in my opinion.


Last edited by wildlight images on Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:09 pm; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildlight images wrote:
I don't care what Dxo measured, photodo, or what Forum said what about what...what "I" care about is what I find pleasing.


Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DigiChromeEd wrote:
wildlight images wrote:
I don't care what Dxo measured, photodo, or what Forum said what about what...what "I" care about is what I find pleasing.


Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


IMHO that's common understanding anyway.

That's actually the reason why I perform such comparison tests myself using my own cameras as it's always the camera/lens combination and not the lens alone. Best negative example is the lousy performance of certain WA RF-lenses on the Sony A7 whereas such lenses may perform excellently on other cameras like already explained. Furthermore we all may have different preferences; i.e. what is best for me may be mediocre for somebody else. Particularly the bokeh is purely a matter of taste and not really a quality issue.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Don't be so surprised, Leica lenses are ridiculously overpriced and often don't perform as well as the hype and price suggests.

For instance, the Summicron 2/28 has smeary corners at infinity at f8, it costs about 3000USD

The Minolta AF 2.8/28 has good corners at infinity and f8 and costs 50USD.


iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

Not everyone is obsessed with corner performance.


and what point exactly were you trying to make? By taking one example out of context you just look like what you are - an arrogant, fatuous troll.

If you haven't got anything to say that isn't pointless bitchy trolling, better to STFU.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DigiChromeEd wrote:
wildlight images wrote:
I don't care what Dxo measured, photodo, or what Forum said what about what...what "I" care about is what I find pleasing.


Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


Exactly, well said.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildlight images wrote:


My point is, it is utterly useless to argue any lens is all this or that because we happen to be humans where beauty is in the eye of the beholder..... being honest about what pleases you and learning what you do that pleases others eyes..... that matters in reality...not pushing your perception, sharing it ....


I agree with most if not all of what you said. While I have on a few occasions compared lenses on a pixel, or more critical level, I also say that my appreciation of a lens comes from my experience using it. I like character more than edge to edge sharpness. However, this applies more to longer lenses than the 24-35 range. As for the 28mm, I had one that I haven't used since the '70s and a very few others now. When I got the Vivitar f/2.8 Close Focus, I was so happy with it that I didn't seek any others. Then I saw an opportunity to get a f/2 version and like that one as much or more. When using them, I've never felt lacking. To me, the feel of a lens while using is important and my immediate reaction when seeing results is even more important. There is another lens that has always pleased me when seeing the images - I don't know that I can explain exactly why, but don't care. That lens is Meyer Lydith.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can always have more than one 28mm. Can't we? Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvin83 wrote:
We can always have more than one 28mm. Can't we? Wink


Only if you want to and only you will know that.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My best 28s?

Have three in mind

-Leica R Elmarit v.2
-Voigtländer 3,5/28 LTM (for the M Monochrom and B&W film)
-Ricoh GR and its 28/2.8

I started with a Nikon AIS 28/2; too much SA @ ƒ/2 though a lovely lens otherwise. Next I tried the Zeiss ZF 2/28. Loved the colors but can't say it was the sharpest lens (perhaps a bad sample). More curvature of field than I cared to deal with. For color, the Leica R is sharp across the frame, and painterly with subtle color tonality. Like no 28 I'd ever used. Exquisite optic both in terms of haptics and performance.

The Voigtländer is tiny (emphasis on small) but provides gorgeous tonality on a Monochrome.

As does the Ricoh OOC JPEGs when set to B&W. Great thing about the Ricoh is you get a free camera with the great lens. Like 1 small