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Yashica Pentamatic Tominon 35mm 2.8 lens
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Yashica Pentamatic Tominon 35mm 2.8 lens Reply with quote

I'm trying to establish if there is anything different about the Pentamatic Tominon 35mm 2.8 lens and the for instance the Yashica Super Yashinon-R 35mm f2.8 lens.

The latter is 6 groups and 5 elements as described here - https://lens-db.com/yashica-super-yashinon-r-35mm-f28/

Also has anyone been using the Pentamatic mount 35mm on full frame digital? Any examples at all?

When we refer to a Tominon made lens what is special about it? Is it the rarity of the Pentamatic Tominon glass that makes the price so much higher?

Thanks for any answers


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Yashica Pentamatic Tominon 35mm 2.8 lens Reply with quote

oldschool wrote:
I'm trying to establish if there is anything different about the Pentamatic Tominon 35mm 2.8 lens and the for instance the Yashica Super Yashinon-R 35mm f2.8 lens.

The latter is 6 groups and 5 elements as described here - https://lens-db.com/yashica-super-yashinon-r-35mm-f28/

Also has anyone been using the Pentamatic mount 35mm on full frame digital? Any examples at all?

When we refer to a Tominon made lens what is special about it? Is it the rarity of the Pentamatic Tominon glass that makes the price so much higher?

Thanks for any answers


Don't know why Tomioka lenses are inflated or anything related is high-priced.

The Pentamatic is quite rare and due to this, there seems no adapters available for modern camera, or latest mirrorless. I have only got the cusin of the 58mm f/1.7, which is from a Mamiya early SLR and I believe the same lens is on one of the Pentamatic cameras. I have also seen the 5.5cm f/1.8 but didn't grab it due to lack of adapter.

Sorry didn't really address your question, but would like to add something to the Pentamatic related discussion.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One version of the Yashinon-R 35mm lens is a Sankor lens
( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yashica-Super-Yashinon-R-35mm-f2-8-M42-Angenieux-like-Retrofocus-lens/324135455211?hash=item4b77fa89eb:g:Wt4AAOSwiXZfMV1m )

It can also be found for much less badged as Accura or Spiratone, among others
( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Accura-35mm-F-2-8-pre-set-wide-angle-lens-for-Nikon-T-mount-provided/362947657854?hash=item54815dc07e:g:R1kAAOSw931ecSuH )

I have one badged Spiratone, that particular copy was not great, and I would imagine the Tominon lens to be better quality.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alun Thomas wrote:
One version of the Yashinon-R 35mm lens is a Sankor lens
( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yashica-Super-Yashinon-R-35mm-f2-8-M42-Angenieux-like-Retrofocus-lens/324135455211?hash=item4b77fa89eb:g:Wt4AAOSwiXZfMV1m )

It can also be found for much less badged as Accura or Spiratone, among others
( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Accura-35mm-F-2-8-pre-set-wide-angle-lens-for-Nikon-T-mount-provided/362947657854?hash=item54815dc07e:g:R1kAAOSw931ecSuH )

I have one badged Spiratone, that particular copy was not great, and I would imagine the Tominon lens to be better quality.


Yes so thats what i'm asking, is it the same lens optically or are the 'clones' the same lens at a fraction of the cost?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yashica-Super-Yashinon-R-35mm-f2-8-M42-Angenieux-like-Retrofocus-lens/324135445576

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35MM-F2-8-TERRAGON-SCREW-MOUNT-GOOD-FOR-MICRO-4-3/171402451838?hash=item27e861db7e:g:SdoAAOSwVFlT1q6T

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spiratone-Wide-Angle-Lens-1-2-8-f-35mm/402304129069?hash=item5dab31d82d:g:HugAAOSwdzZe5jLT

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACCURA-Diamatic-Auto-Wide-Angle-Camera-Lens-35MM-1-2-8-EF-C743/133462241604?hash=item1f12f83144:g:TbIAAOSwRPJfCL01

And i believe this also to be derived from post Pentamatic cameras - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mamiya-Sekor-AUTO-35mm-f2-8-Lens-M42-mount-Sample-shots-DIGITALLY-TESTED-/353162338733?nma=true&si=NmPYBPAaTVDGZNFHpnBZ5jL15fQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't say for sure, but would imagine the Sankor (Yashinon-R) version to differ optically from the Tominon marked lens, and the other various clones to be more or less identical to the (Sankor) Yashinon-R lens. As I said, the copy I tried seemed overly poor, and wouldn't be surprised if other copies performed better than the one I used.

One difference visible with the 'tominon' marked lens is the deoth of focus marker, as seen here ( https://yashicasailorboy.com/2017/12/07/yashica-tomioka-pentamatic-lens-available-for-purchase/ ) It is quite different to the Sankor version. With this visible difference, and the different manufacturer identifications, my impression would be that they are two different computations.

edit - the accura and mamiya lenses you have linked to both look to be Tokina made.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomioka lenses have to be the most over-hyped, it is a total myth they are any better than other cheap Japanese 3rd party lenses of the same period.

Two of the lenses in that list of four on ebay are Sankors - the ones with E after the serial number.

All you are looking at with those cheap Japanese 35s from that time frame is a tessar 4e/3g lens with an extra large, highly curved element added in front. Most of them are mediocre.

There is one lens of that type (tessar with extra large front element) that I would highly recommend and that is the Meyer Primagon. It is a whole different level of quality to those cheap Japanese versions which most likely coped the Primagon.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject: yashica =tomioka Reply with quote

Form japanese photoindustry history it is clear that yashica merged with Tomioka and if "tomixxx" on a lens signifies origin in tomiokas workshops, I would assume that the two lenses might be similar. But, given the tendency to keep names while changing designs, they might be just as different as the early and later Sonnars. And in contrast to mr. Berteles creations, the original calculation and assembly might not have been particularly good.

p.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Japanese copied German designs because they didn't recognise German patents, almost all the early Japanese post-war creations are copied in whole or in part from German designs.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject: Yashica Tominon Super Yashinon-R 3.5cm f2.8 Reply with quote

So is there any reason why the Pentamatic fit Yashica Tominon Super Yashinon-R 3.5cm f2.8 sells for such high prices?

I'm also surprised why there are so very few images out there from this lens available to see.

Anyone have one of these?


PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one, it's one of my most favorite lenses, an absolute joy to use, beautiful rendering, and sharp, it out performs my Flek 35/2.8.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/yashicatominonsuperyashinonr35cm28/


PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I have one, it's one of my most favorite lenses, an absolute joy to use, beautiful rendering, and sharp, it out performs my Flek 35/2.8.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/yashicatominonsuperyashinonr35cm28/


I would just like to some pictures from this lens Smile would you feel the same way about it if the build quality wasn't as good?


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldschool wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
I have one, it's one of my most favorite lenses, an absolute joy to use, beautiful rendering, and sharp, it out performs my Flek 35/2.8.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/yashicatominonsuperyashinonr35cm28/

I would just like to some pictures from this lens Smile would you feel the same way about it if the build quality wasn't as good?

I did post a link to my pictures tagged for the this lens.... Unless I am mistaken about what you wrote.
The beautiful build is icing on the cake, it's one of my most preferred portrait lenses, people seem so lifelike you could reach out and touch them, so, yeah if the body wasn't as wonderful I'd still love it for the optics.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
oldschool wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
I have one, it's one of my most favorite lenses, an absolute joy to use, beautiful rendering, and sharp, it out performs my Flek 35/2.8.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/yashicatominonsuperyashinonr35cm28/

I would just like to some pictures from this lens Smile would you feel the same way about it if the build quality wasn't as good?

I did post a link to my pictures tagged for the this lens.... Unless I am mistaken about what you wrote.
The beautiful build is icing on the cake, it's one of my most preferred portrait lenses, people seem so lifelike you could reach out and touch them, so, yeah if the body wasn't as wonderful I'd still love it for the optics.


Your shots are quite lovely.
The peaches are beautifully rendered and the amount of detail in the cliff face is extraordinary.
I searched for some portraits but could not find any.
Well done for the images that you have posted
T


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I don't have any portraits online because I don't have permission to post them, sorry, but take my word, they look great.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody honored German patents after World War II. One of the reparations was invalidating all their patents. Thus Japanese lens makers could use Zeiss' hard coatings -- but Leica couldn't, because the patents were still in force in Germany.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have this lens too but named Super Yash-DX

so R gone - add DX

and with DX is of course M42 mount

Some time ago I was trying to figure out is this just re-badged old Penta mount ("tomioka") or something else ..

Great performer, had at that moment a Nokton to compare ..


PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if your lens is the same formula as mine, can you post some pictures so I can see it's rendering.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok for now only lens pics ..







PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, I've not seen that lens before, I've done a few searches for presets but never seen it, not that my searches are exhaustive since my searches rely on "preset" being used on the page.

If anyone knows of a preset database I'd love to hear of it.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alun Thomas wrote:
One version of the Yashinon-R 35mm lens is a Sankor lens
( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yashica-Super-Yashinon-R-35mm-f2-8-M42-Angenieux-like-Retrofocus-lens/324135455211?hash=item4b77fa89eb:g:Wt4AAOSwiXZfMV1m )

It can also be found for much less badged as Accura or Spiratone, among others
( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Accura-35mm-F-2-8-pre-set-wide-angle-lens-for-Nikon-T-mount-provided/362947657854?hash=item54815dc07e:g:R1kAAOSw931ecSuH )

I have one badged Spiratone, that particular copy was not great, and I would imagine the Tominon lens to be better quality.


I had a Yashinon-R copy arrive in the last few days, this copy was actually half decent, good (ish) corners at F8 and infinity, reasonable IQ across the frame. Competitve for that era, certainly. Perhaps my spiratone copy is defective, suffered from reduced emphasis on QA, or perhaps Spiratone/Accura took the seconds? Who knows...