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Yashica ML Zoom 80-200 f4
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a shame the pictures in my earlier posts have gone, I think they went in the great site crash of a few years ago that also coincided with my catastrophic computer crash. But they were good pictures - maybe not artistically good - but technically good, because it is a very good, and under rated lens. Along with the ML 28 / 2.8 and 50 / 1.7 it makes a great set of lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obviously there are two slightly different versions of the Yashica ML 4/80-200mm. They differ mechanically (length, size of aperture ring, diameter of front lens ring [engravings!]). Coating is different as well, but optical construction must be very similar (if not identical) as the reflexes show hardly any difference.




I haven't had the chance to compare these two samples yet; the first one was rather mediocre in quality and certainly no match to the Zeiss C/Y Vario Sonnar 3.5/70-210mm or the Vario Sonnar 4/80-200mm.

Stephan


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the one pictured to the right. Did anyone every compare it with the Zeiss?

Pictures are now gone from this thread. Here are some pictures I have taken with this zoom. Mostly boring shots.

This is an aggressive crop.



Night shot.







PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
I have the one pictured to the right. Did anyone every compare it with the Zeiss?


biggles3 wrote:
... Incidentally, the ML 80-200 and the Zeiss 80-200 produce very similar results except in extreme lighting where the T* coating has the edge over the ML


Yes. And I wouldn't say the Yashica ML 4/80-200mm produces "Very similar results" to the Carl Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm Wink

CLICK TWICE ON THE IMAGE TO GET FULL RESOLUTION PICS!



Not only the resolution is clearly different, but also the color rendition. First image from the Yashica (at 200mm f4):




Second image from the Zeiss (at 200mm f4):



Stephan


PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is a rare Yashica ML Zoom 4/70-210mm. It seems the result on here is pretty good https://www.digicamclub.de/showthread.php?t=20490 . I wonder how it will perform again ML 80-200 and the Zeiss 80-200mm.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
There is a rare Yashica ML Zoom 4/70-210mm. It seems the result on here is pretty good https://www.digicamclub.de/showthread.php?t=20490 . I wonder how it will perform again ML 80-200 and the Zeiss 80-200mm.


Me too Wink ... I've never ever seen one here in Switzerland, otherwise I'd have bought it Wink

S


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Yes. And I wouldn't say the Yashica ML 4/80-200mm produces "Very similar results" to the Carl Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm Wink



They never do. I have heard this claim many times. It's Zeiss like. However, if you analyze the extreme corners, colors, contrast, etc the Zeiss usually if not always pulls ahead.

Thank you for posting the comparison.

Personally, I still think the Yashica is a good zoom. They sell for very little money. Not to say the Vario Sonnar is an expensive lens as far as zeiss goes but it sells for exponentially more.

I took the Yashica ML 80-200 lens out today. It was mounted to a speed booster: Lens Turbo II.

The lens can lose contrast when shot against the sun, but in less extreme shooting conditions it has good contrast, colors, and sharpness.



It's also capable of very nice smooth bokeh. Don't judge the sharpness of the lens on the kid photo. The boy moves like a squirrel on crack and I shake like a dog shitting peach seeds.



PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Not only the resolution is clearly different, but also the color rendition. First image from the Yashica (at 200mm f4):



For that particular image I think it's largely a difference in coatings: T* vs ML.

I took the jpeg. Imported into Capture One and did an auto adjustment to levels. The images look much closer now.




PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:

For that particular image I think it's largely a difference in coatings: T* vs ML.

I took the jpeg. Imported into Capture One and did an auto adjustment to levels. The images look much closer now.


I'm with Steve here. It has nothing to do with coatings (and I wonder why some people still believe that coatings are the "magic bullet"...). The Yashica ML 80-200 f/4 is nothing but a rebadged Tokina RMC 80-200 f/4 and while the latter was considered to be one of the best third party zooms of the beginning 1980s', it is still much inferior in resolution and contrast to the Zeiss lens which has not only a more modern revised optical design but which is certainly one of the very best manual tele zooms.

Greetings Volker


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:

They never do. I have heard this claim many times. It's Zeiss like. However, if you analyze the extreme corners, colors, contrast, etc the Zeiss usually if not always pulls ahead.


I was surprised myself how much the colors would differentiate. Of course, these days that isn't so important any more - but back then, looking at slides, it must have been a quite impressive difference!

cbass wrote:

Thank you for posting the comparison.

You're welcome.


cbass wrote:

Personally, I still think the Yashica is a good zoom. They sell for very little money. Not to say the Vario Sonnar is an expensive lens as far as zeiss goes but it sells for exponentially more.


Yep, of course the "value-for-money" is difficult to beat. But hey, I paid for the Carl Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm in like-new ondition about CHF (EUR/USD) 120.--, and for the earlier Carl Zeiss CY 3.5/70-210mm (a behemoth with terrific reputation and price back in its time) less than 100.--. Not exactly expensive as well. The CY 3.5/70-210mm was around CHF 3000.--, originally ...

And yes, you Yashica ML 4/80-200mm images are really nice and well done Wink

S


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:

I'm with Steve here. It has nothing to do with coatings (and I wonder why some people still believe that coatings are the "magic bullet"...). The Yashica ML 80-200 f/4 is nothing but a rebadged Tokina RMC 80-200 f/4 and while the latter was considered to be one of the best third party zooms of the beginning 1980s', it is still much inferior in resolution and contrast to the Zeiss lens which has not only a more modern revised optical design but which is certainly one of the very best manual tele zooms.

Greetings Volker


I don't think I said it was only coatings. I think my first statement was that people often claim lenses are as good as Zeiss but usually if not always the Zeiss pulls ahead when pushed and inspected closely. The Yashica does look to be a Tokina RMC 80-200 f/4. IMO it's still not a bad lens. The lens can lose contrast with the sun in the frame, but all other times it has nice colors and contrast.

So you don't think the coating are largely responsible for the contrast and colors? I cleaned up that Yashica image with one click.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Yep, of course the "value-for-money" is difficult to beat. But hey, I paid for the Carl Zeiss CY 4/80-200mm in like-new ondition about CHF (EUR/USD) 120.--, and for the earlier Carl Zeiss CY 3.5/70-210mm (a behemoth with terrific reputation and price back in its time) less than 100.--. Not exactly expensive as well. The CY 3.5/70-210mm was around CHF 3000.--, originally ...

And yes, you Yashica ML 4/80-200mm images are really nice and well done Wink

S


Those indeed are great prices. The Yashica can be found for $10-50 USD. So although cheap the Zeiss is still exponentially more expensive. The problem even with the Yashica and Zeiss is that they are huge lenses. It's a lens I almost never carry because of that. I am still tempted to pick up the Vario Sonnar though. They can't stay that cheap forever.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:

Those indeed are great prices. The Yashica can be found for $10-50 USD. So although cheap the Zeiss is still exponentially more expensive. The problem even with the Yashica and Zeiss is that they are huge lenses. It's a lens I almost never carry because of that. I am still tempted to pick up the Vario Sonnar though. They can't stay that cheap forever.


If you get one of the Vario Sonnars I would strongly recommend the 4/80-200mm. Not because it performs better than the 3.5/70-210mm, but because the 70-210mm simply is too big/heavy Wink. From a collectors standpoint, the 3.5/70-210mm is more interesting of course. It was one of those very few CY lenses only produced in Germany (Zeiss claimed the Japanese weren't able to keep the tolerances as low as necessary). Other such CY lenses produced only in Germany were the Distagon 3.5/15mm, the 2.8/16mm Fisheye, and speciality lenses such as the 1.2/85mm or the 2.8/300mm APO.

S


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Obviously there are two slightly different versions of the Yashica ML 4/80-200mm. They differ mechanically (length, size of aperture ring, diameter of front lens ring [engravings!]). Coating is different as well, but optical construction must be very similar (if not identical) as the reflexes show hardly any difference.


There are more than two. It's interesting to see the variation in the ones you posted. There was an earlier Yashica 80-200mm f/4 that was a 15 element 11 group design. For a long time it was unknown if this one ever made it to production but it has been found in the wild.

https://lens-db.com/yashica-ml-80-200mm-f4-1978/

The picture you posted is Type II. 12 elements in 9 groups. I wonder if there are more than 2 variations.

https://lens-db.com/yashica-ml-80-200mm-f4/


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You found the 70-210/3.5 for an incredible price. I just checked and prices have climbed eight to ten hold what you paid.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
You found the 70-210/3.5 for an incredible price. I just checked and prices have climbed eight to ten hold what you paid.

Not necessarily. While I myselfe got my lens a few years ago (2016 or 2017), last year there was another one here, on a local auction, which went for a similar price as mine (roughly CHF 100.--)

S


PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:20 am    Post subject: Is this Separation? Reply with quote
I got a copy of this lens in a box of cameras and lenses a while ago. I THINK I have the version on the right in the image of the two variants posted earlier in this thread, but am not entirely sure. I have no adapter yet for C/Y, so have not tried the lens.

There is a weird rainbow thing happening in the front on my copy. There is some fungus there, but around the fungus and under it, a colourful rainbow pattern too. I'm guessing this is separation, but I have never seen separation, so not entirely sure. I checked the optical scheme and saw that there is a single front element and a cemented pair immediately under it. While I haven't taken it apart to confirm, it certainly does look like the front element has fungus and this pattern is on the one below it. Attaching two pics, one SOC and the second edited to make the rainbow more visible. Can someone with more experience please confirm what this is?


#1


#2


And assuming its separation, what can I expect in terms of performance and future degradation?
Thanks!
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