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Wide angle macro - How did he do it
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Wide angle macro - How did he do it Reply with quote

Just saw an article in a magazine with wide angle macro shots.
How did he modify the lens. Only with extension rings?


http://www.geo.de/GEO/info/newsletter/abo/54620.html

http://www.geo.de/GEO/fotografie/fotoshows/61010.html

http://pa.photoshelter.com/c/solvinzankl/gallery/Wide-view-macro/G0000Xj5NXkE1giM/

The photographer is Solvin Zankl


http://www.solvinzankl.com/


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be a very wide angle 17-20mm or fisheye with a very short extention tube. I have done similar using that...


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found something about deep focus photography, but it seems to be a different system.


http://www.stern.de/wissenschaft/natur/:Satoshi-Kuribayashi-Gro%DFes-Krabbeln-Kamera/573841.html

http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~kuriken/html/japan/gallery-1.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cypherone/2365183259/


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and something on extension rings with fisheye lenses.


http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00FdFA


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is not difficult really, super wides already have normally a short focusing distance "by their own nature". With a little tube, they can focus even an object that sits on the front glass.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MF-addicted wrote:
Found something about deep focus photography, but it seems to be a different system.


http://www.stern.de/wissenschaft/natur/:Satoshi-Kuribayashi-Gro%DFes-Krabbeln-Kamera/573841.html

http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~kuriken/html/japan/gallery-1.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cypherone/2365183259/


These are shot using some endoscope equipment. It can be seen on his site - a camera witha fine long tube in front.


Last edited by kds315* on Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you haven't seen that, just posted a bit before, THAT is such a solution to achieve images like the shown ones:
http://forum.mflenses.com/relay-lens-system-to-adapt-short-back-focal-lenses-t18103.html



PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I took the liberty and asked Solvin Zankl how he did it...guess what, the answer was 100% what I had expected "...an artist doen't reveal his tricks...", here the original version:
((quote))
Sehr geehrte Fotografie-Interessierte,

wir freuen uns sehr ber die groe Resonanz, die die Bilder des GEO-Artikels (09/07) ber den Tag der Artenvielfalt ausgelst haben. Die Reaktionen der Betrachter auf meine Bilder sind fr mich von grter Wichtigkeit, da ich bewusst versuche, mit jeder Aufnahme eine Aussage zu transportieren.

Nun ist es so, dass die Fotografie mein Beruf ist und ich mir leider nicht in die Karten schauen lassen kann – ein Zauberknstler lsst sich ja auch nicht in seine Trick-Kiste schauen.

Aufgrund der Menge an Nachfragen habe ich leider nicht die Mglichkeit, jede Nachricht persnlich zu beantworten. Um auch weiter sehenswerte Arbeiten erstellen zu knnen, muss ich meine Zeit bevorzugt der Fotografie widmen. Dafuer bitte ich um Ihr Verstndnis.

Ich bedanke mich erneut fuer Ihr reges Interesse an meinen Arbeiten und wnsche Ihnen weiterhin viel Freude an der Fotografie

Solvin Zankl

((unquote))

Well, I guess I should learn from him...?? Just some quick, crude tabletop setup, directly from the cam, nothing beautified, just to prove that it is not a big deal to get a bug or flower (this Sanvitalia is ca 10mm in diameter) into some dramatic perspective:



PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your idea of contacting him directly Very Happy
It was the answer I though he would give.
But your "Solvin Zankl" shot is great.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow this is just really nice, i wonder if it's possible to use this technique with some telescope eyepieces... thanks for sharing!


PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's achieved some very fine effects. Thanks for posting the links.

Judging from the photo of him, he is using a macro flash adapter mounted on his lens to provide fill flash for the subjects, and has it on a very wide angle lens probably with a tube.

The flash will allow him to stop down a bit to try to boost DoF. It seems odd that he appears to use three flash tubes, Canon has a twin-light, with two flashes, for variable flash intensity or a ring light that completely surrounds the lens and gives a flat illumination.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking at Solvin's pictures --

he must have a fisheye ...

but I think the fisheye is a main rule..

Nice pictures but .. I don't know Smile ...

tf


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple I just shot to see if it matches what he is doing




The first one is shot with a 20mm flektogon and a 20mm tube, with fill flash positioned close to the flower, at f22.

The second one (which I much prefer, not just because of the blown highlights in the first) is with a 35mm flek and 20mm tube at f8.

Both lenses were focused to infinity.

Using the wider lens with this much extension means you have to get so close to the subject that the lens is casting a shadow on it. A lens-mounted flash would solve that, it is very awkward to shoot using an off-camera flash as I did here. F22 is also essential as the focus point is too close to the front glass, but that obviously means loss of definition from diffraction.

The 35mm is much easier to use - I took some with and some without flash, I think this one was without. Being able to stop down to f8 means no loss of detail through diffraction and provides better background bokeh (which is important as much of the picture is bokeh).

It is very clear from the highlights in the images of the original artist's photoshelter gallery that he is using lens-mounted flash, he would probably get even better images by putting diffusers on the flash heads.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my last post got duplicated, somehow


PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The results in your second pics are really fine, i would have never thought about using extension tubes with a wideangle lens (always did it with my 50mm or longer lenses) ...
I think i have found a way to spend some time during my holidays Wink ...

Cheers


PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A reversal ring is the most important accessory for WA macro - with reversal, you get the full retrofocus distance as additional headroom between glass and subject, while in normal position, the retrofocus design means that you rapidly approach negative (and hence impossible) front lens/subject distances when going macro.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Sevo is VERY VERY close to the point ..

tf


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it rather unsettling that we have to guess his technique because he refuses to tell us. Here is an article I read a long time ago: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/share.htm
While not the most articulate, I have to say I agree with the premise nearly 100%.

I guess it just tests our technical skill right?


PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

themoleman342 wrote:
I find it rather unsettling that we have to guess his technique because he refuses to tell us. Here is an article I read a long time ago: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/share.htm
While not the most articulate, I have to say I agree with the premise nearly 100%.

I guess it just tests our technical skill right?


I can't agree with that. Ken Rockwell ends his article with a request for donations. Ansell Adams sold his books. Both expected to gain something in return for telling what they knew.

If your knowledge has commercial value, you can't be expected to give it away free to potential rivals.

As for testing our skills - we probably learn more by discussing and experimenting than we would be being told the "secret" in the first place.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I'm getting a clue what he (Solvin Zankl) might be doing..





PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful, Klaus!

I'm going to have to fuss with this when I get home now.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Haley,
the whole series is here if you like to see more:
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/relay_lens_systems


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are very nice shots, Klaus, but I don't think you are getting close to the image definition Zankl's examples show and you're clearly having to sharpen quite heavily.

I'd be interested to see examples shot with the reversing ring suggested by Sevo


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who said I'm already there? ("...getting a clue...") It's work in progress... Wink


PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough. But what if he is using a different set-up with fewer optical limitations?