Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!

SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Wide angle lenses for 6x9
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Dan, I intend to be very careful. I'll keep waiting until the right lens at the right price comes along. I might get lucky and spot something like a Dallmeyer Wide Angle Anastigmat cheap, I did see a 3 inch one go for very little a while back. I don't have much money to spend so I need to spend it wisely.

I bought the Speed because I can put barrel lenses on it, but sadly, I haven't seen any suitable ones, so I think the focal plane shutter is a bit redundant and I might just keep the Century and sell the Speed, we shall see.

BTW, the Tominons from Polaroid oscilloscope cameras, they are in Copal Press Shutters. I know you are familiar with these, could you remind me of what these Press shutters in this size are useful for, I might grab one then look for a suitable lens to put in it.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromm wrote:
Rawhead, you may be thinking of the 2x3 Crown Graphic. The Century Graphic's back is integral, is part of the body molding. Can't be removed without sawing ... The Crown's back comes right off, IIRC its held on by four screws. Haven't thought that thought for a while so haven't looked at mine with back removal in mind.


Ah you are right! I just looked at the back of my Century, and sure enough it's integral Razz


Quote:

You stinker, your Century is prettier than mine. Mine's an early one, has a painted steel front standard, not a spiffy stainless one like yours.


I got two of these in this condition from a local guy who'd hoarded about a dozen and a half Graflex cameras for UNBELIEVABLY cheap. As in, criminally cheap Smile I'm currently going through the process of figuring out which ones exactly I can use (including some "projects") and which ones to pass along.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to ask, is that an APo-Grandagon rawhead? looks beautiful. Smile

Can any of you guys post some pics taken with some of the lenses you have suggested, it would be very useful for me to see some.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian, I haven't had any of the Polaroid Copal #0s, understand that they have restricted apertures. There were discussions about this years ago on the US LF forum http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/forum.php , some posters reported that there were ways to modify them to get full aperture. I b'lieve that Jim Galli, who posts there, was one of the people who did the modifications. If searching in the forum (use Google, not the forum's search function) gets you ask nothing, ask Jim. He's a good guy. I don't know whether their tube lengths conform to the #0 standard.

I have a couple of the Polaroid Copal #1s that hold 127/4.7 Tominons as used in, e.g., the Polaroid CU-4. These things' tubes are 22 mm long, 2 mm longer than the #1 standard. Oops! So they're best used with the lens that comes with them -- quite good on 2x3 -- or with 150/5.6 plasmat types because these, according to Eric Beltrando's calculations, aren't very sensitive to small errors in cell spacing.

I also have a couple of the Polaroid MP-4 Copal shutters. These have no diaphragm, so are usually inexpensive. And they have press focus. Just what's wanted for front-mounting as long as their top shutter speed of 1/125 can be lived with. AFAIK they're the only Copal Polaroid shutters with press focus.

About y'r Speed, Ian, it is ideal for process lenses that it can focus and for decent modern lenses in barrel. I've seen Xenars and Symmars in barrel sold, wrongly, as enlarging lenses. Not expensive;y 135 Symmar cost all of $32 delivered. Similarly, ancient and some modern Tessars in barrel. My 84/6.3 Krauss Tessar wasn't dear, and neither was my post-WW II 164/6.3 B&L Tessar. This last is coated, cost $25 at a camera show.

Understand, its been a while since I shopped hard for lenses. I have more than enough. My last lens purchase was a 45/9 CZJ Goerz Dagor and was a very lucky find. Lucky finds as written about in my lens diary are much scarcer now than when I was buying lotsa lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I forgot to ask, is that an APo-Grandagon rawhead? looks beautiful. Smile

Can any of you guys post some pics taken with some of the lenses you have suggested, it would be very useful for me to see some.


Yes that is the Apo-Grandagon. It is beautiful Smile I posted a 6x7 shot earlier in the thread. I mounted my newly acquired 6x9 on it today and hope to take it out for a spin tomorrow, so soon I'll post a shot frmo there, too Smile

In the mean time, here's a slightly different camera porn for your Century Very Happy




Not a wide angle, but beautiful nonetheless Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan. The restricted aperture wouldn't be a problem for me, I would only be shooting at smaller apertures anyways.

Thanks for the info about the shutters. Do you know how well the Tominon 75mm shoots at distance? It might be a useful wider lens until I can afford something better.

I'll keep looking for barrel lenses, only ones I have seen have been C-Claron 135s, those are dirt cheap, but are process lenses so probably not so hot at distance.

I'm not sure lenses longer than my 105mm Xenar interest me all that much, I rarely shoot longer than 50mm on digital or 35mm, I'm a wide angle guy.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian, the 75/4.5 Tominon is a reversed tessar type intended for use on 4x5 at magnifications from 2:1 to 6.5:1. It isn't intended for use at distance and, as an f/4.5 Tessar, isn't a wide angle lens. You'd be better off with a 75 from a 6x6 folder.

Some process lenses are superb at all distances. Dialyte type Apo-Nikkors, Apo-Artars, and Apo-Ronars, for example. There are few short ones, and the few short (100 mm or less) ones are narrow angle lenses that don't cover 2x3.

Wide angle guy, the best thing you can do is accumulate enough money to buy a decent w/a lens or two that will cover at least 2x3. I'm sorry, but there are no good inexpensive lenses much shorter than 100 mm that cover 2x3. Many search for these little magic bullets, few find 'em.

If you have a #0 shutter to spare -- cock and shoot, not press -- the Koni-Omega 58s and 60s may be your best bet. I don't know how much shipping to the UK would be, but there are a couple with BINs under $150 on ebay.com. Otherwise accept that you can't have top tier and wait patiently for a decent 65/6.8 Angulon or Optar/Raptar in shutter to turn up. Don't limit your search to ebay.co.uk, look at UK dealers (mrcad, mwclassic, ...) and especially ebay.com.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the sort of thing you might have to settle for:

330859890490


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan, I went into this suspecting there were no cheap but good wide angles for 2x3, and you confirmed it.

That Angulon would be great for my purposes I think, how does it compare in the IQ stakes with the Koni Hexanons or the Mamiya Universal/Press 65?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian, I can't report on the 65/6.5 Angulon from my own experience, but there's a partial answer to your question here: http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

Partial because he reports on the lenses shot on their native formats. So, for example, edge sharpness for the 58 K-O lenses he tested is at the edge of 6x7, not at the edge of 6x9.

The Angulon I pointed you at is being auctioned, has no bids yet. There's no telling what snipers, if any, will bid. Ever since I found Hammersnipe I've always sniped auctions, never entered a bid manually (and early).


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Dan. I will research the Angulon, bound to be plenty of info and image samples. That one appeals to me as it would match the Linhof Xenar I also have.

Last night a Dallmeyer Wide Angle Anastigmat 6.5/3.25 inch (82.5mm) went cheap and the LVM says it's a good one, 6.5 is for focussing due to coma, designed to be shot f11-22. However, it's not that wide and covers 5x4 so I let someone who would make better use of it take it, and I'm unsure of the shutter it will fit too. I'm not sure what shutter it was in, hard to tell from the picture, maybe a Koilos as it has a shiny front plate.

I'd rather save my pennies until I have enough for a known good lens than trawl through a load of mysterious cheapies, I made that mistake with my 35mm aquisitions.

I've got an itch to have one of those Grandagons though, maybe I can sell a kidney Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lost on this mystery lens, I only put 11 bucks on it. No idea what it is, but looks wide angle and it will fit the working rimset Compur Rapid I have from a broken 6x9 folder, someone might have got a bargain or might have got junk.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Special-lens-fit-to-compur-maybe-wide-angle-angulon-rodenstock-schneider-/200880181748?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=jgzd8bU8TjMZnji8x4sSdte5SRI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Any idea what it might be, Dan?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I lost on this mystery lens, I only put 11 bucks on it. No idea what it is, but looks wide angle and it will fit the working rimset Compur Rapid I have from a broken 6x9 folder, someone might have got a bargain or might have got junk.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Special-lens-fit-to-compur-maybe-wide-angle-angulon-rodenstock-schneider-/200880181748?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=jgzd8bU8TjMZnji8x4sSdte5SRI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Any idea what it might be, Dan?
I looked at it several days ago. It doesn't look like a wide angle lens to me. Yes, the front cell has a large first element, but the rear cell is too long and narrow for it to be a w/a lens. Modern w/a lenses are shaped like hourglasses.

I have no idea what it is. It might be buried treasure, but the odds are against. If you want a w/a lens for 5x7, the seller's 135/6.8 Largor is, so far, buried treasure. If, that is, the glass is in good condition.

I've regarded the seller, after adjusting for his poor English, as ignorant and nuts since I first saw one of his listings. His feedback, though, is good.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan, a mystery lens for sure, I hope someone puts it to good use. I suspected it might be an oscilloscope lens.

Interesting about the Largor. I keep harbouring a longing for a 5x7 camera I can put my Ross WA Xpress 4/5" on. Smile


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what a good price for it is, but there is a good looking Angulon 65 on the 'bay now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-Angulon-1-6-8-65mm-Graflex-Synchro-Compur-/190786288243?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2c6bbfba73


PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I managed to find an Angulon 6.5/68 on a Graflex board to fit a Graphic 23 and in the UK too, which surprised me, Graflex stuff is very uncommon here. I grabbed it for 40ukp which I think was a bit of a bargain. As soon as it arrives I'll make some samples, I have some sheets of Orwo NP15 I'm itching to use.



PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good snag, Ian. The lenses are usually more expensive and boards aren't cheap either.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Dan. It arrived today, in good condition, the shutter seems to be fully working, lens is clear, just a little light fungus but nothing that won't clean up.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan_ wrote:
Schnider and Rodenstock are the usual options.
The 47mm Schnider SA (non XL) is a very good tiny lens for 6x9. The newer f5.6 one is better and it covers 6x9 with some movements.
The 53mm Zeiss Biogon is very nice, high resolution, but very heavy (and expensive).
A Biogon copy is the Koni-Omega Hexanon 58mm (marked 60mm on some lenses). It covers 6x9 and it can be easily remounted in a Copal/Compur #0 shutter. I have both the Biogon and the remounted Hexanon and prefer the Hexanon.
An interesting lens is the TT&H Series VII-b 82mm lens. It is tiny, it covers 4X5 inches and it can be easily mounted in front of a compur#1 shutter. Is a very good lens for landscape but it can only be used from f/11 to f/45. Wide opened is only for focusing on the ground glass.


The koni lens is designed for 6x7 so it may not cover 6x9 very well.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike earussi wrote:

The koni lens is designed for 6x7 so it may not cover 6x9 very well.


I'm pretty sure that if Dan says he has it remounted in a Copal/Compur #0 shutter and that it covers 6x9, it covers 6x9 Smile


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, thanks for questioning me. I've used my 60/5.6 Konica Hexanon on a 2x3 Graphic, it really does put good image in the corners at f/11 and f/16. Honest.

On another point, thanks for alerting me to a bad slip. The 58 and 60 f/5.6s for Omega cameras aren't Biogon clones. I must have been dozing when I wrote that. The 58 has the same layout as an f/5.6 Super Angulon, the 60 as the f/8 Super Angulon. 8/4 and 6/4, respectively; their rear cells are much smaller than the corresponding SA rear cells, so I find it hard to believe they have anywhere near the SAs' coverage.

Cheers,

Dan


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I must have been dozing when I wrote that

Not you, I must have been dozing because I made that mistake. It just happens that we are both Dan Confused
And I have too a 58mm KO Hexanon remounted in a Copal#0 shutter on a Linhof Technika 6x9 lens board and can testify that it is quite usable on 6x9 with the diaphragm closed a little.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just missed out on this one, sadly:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hexanon-60mm-F5-6-Lens-for-Koni-Omega-Rangefinder-Cameras-Faulty-Shutter-/281060590505?item=281060590505&ViewItem=&nma=true&si=jgzd8bU8TjMZnji8x4sSdte5SRI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan_, thanks for the correction. It seems that I'm still dozing. Oh, well, its winter so I suppose I should be.

Ian, someday your ship will come in. In the meantime, use and enjoy your 65/6.8 Angulon and continue accumulating small monetary units until you can buy a 47 SA or a 35 AG.

If you find the Angulon good enough to use, your money will be better spent on a lens significantly shorter than on one nearly the same focal length. I know, I know, in your heart you want a 30-210 zoom that covers 2x3 and if you can't get one you'd like to approximate it with as many lenses with closely-spaced focal lengths as you can get. You're not strong enough to carry that many lenses.

FWIW, in my experience a 47 is much more easily used on 2x3 than a 35. You have to remember that with a short lens (for a format) most of a shot is foreground, very little is distant background. Situations where a lens with a 35's angle of view (on 2x3 its horizontal angle of view is not quite 100 degrees) is appropriate are rare.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Dan, I only want a 3 or 4 lens set for my Graphic. I figured 47, 65, 105 and 135 or 150.

The Xenar 3.5/105 and Angulon 6.8/65 will serve me well for quite a while, I need to get the shutter he Xenar is in CLA'd as the top four speeds work but the slower ones stick open, so I'll just have to use the Angulon while that's being done.

I read a lot of comments around the net about the Angulon and some say it's good and sharp, others denigrate it, but I think that's mostly based on it's weaker edge performance at larger apertures and I'll be using it at f16-f32 so I'm fairly confident it will be fine.

That said, the Koni Hexanon 60 for just over 40ukp was too good to pass, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

I'll actually be shooting 6x7 quite a lot on my Century Graphic as I have a Mamiya RB67 70mm back and a lot of 70mm film so I'm considering a Bronica 40mm as a much cheaper alternative to a 35 GA. The Bronica 40 will cover 6x7, but I doubt it will cover 6x9, so I'd just have to stick to using it with 6x7, but the cells from the Bronica just screw straight into a #0 shutter so it's a very cheap option and there are always Bronica 40s on ebay for cheap prices, I'm just waiting for very cheap one with a broken shutter or aperture as I'm only interested in taking the cells from it.

I have a very nice condition Mamiya 2.8/80 in a fully working Seikosha from a Mamiyaflex that sadly died on me. Not sure how sell it will cover 6x7 but I will try to put it to good use.