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what´s your "all-in-one" ?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: what´s your "all-in-one" ? Reply with quote
It´s true: we have DSLR´s to be versatile.
But often we want easy baggage, feeling like Cartier-Bresson.
But we also want to be prepared for a wide range of photo-themes.

So we have to look for the ultimate compromise, the "all-in-one":
Capable for macro, available-light, portrait, still-life, landscape - and all in pristine quality... Rolling Eyes

I want to open a thread to present our personal "all-in-one".

I will start with my solution (after many attempts and experience):
Sigma SD9 with viewfinder-loupe & Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 with hood



Last edited by Retro on Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I need compromise I grab a compact zoom camera. With SLR I never make compromise. I tried 28-210 Kiron, but result wansn't better than a comact cam.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: what´s your "all-in-one" ? Reply with quote
Retro wrote:
So we have to look for the ultimate compromise, the "all-in-one":
Capable for macro, available-light, portrait, still-life, landscape - and all in pristine quality... Rolling Eyes

That would be my 40D with my EF-S 17-85 IS. °Muuhaaahaaahaa!° Twisted Evil Laughing Laughing Laughing
No, all kidding aside: I think my Nikkor-O 2.0/35 gets pretty close to an allround-lens on a crop-DSLR.

Retro wrote:

This is a very nice photo! I really like it!


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
This is a very nice photo! I really like it!

Thank you very much! Embarassed

I tried to attain two aspects:
- photographing a camera in a nice but also instructing way
- experimenting with the "imagon-effekt" ( http://eye.de/tip_imagon.shtml )


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is my present all-in-one, well, one of many.



EOS350D with 4.5/5.25" Cooke Aviar and a self-made lens shade after some cosmetic and tactile modding with soft leather.

This setup goes to 1:2 macro, is good for portraits, I can do reasonable available light with it and for landscapes I'm generally most comfortable with lenses longer than 100mm on a crop camera - even 60mm mostly feels like a wide-angle. Of course, under very cramped conditions this doesn't cut it, but the alternatives aren't as versatile elsewhere, IMHO.

Veijo

PS. the lens shade changes things so much that I'll have to redo some test shooting. Here is a comparison histogram, the upper histogram without a lens shade, the lower one with one - under an completely overcast sky, no PP adjustments:



PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wow I like the soft leather, it give prestige to the 350D


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: what´s your "all-in-one" ? Reply with quote
Retro wrote:

So we have to look for the ultimate compromise, the "all-in-one":
Capable for macro, available-light, portrait, still-life, landscape - and all in pristine quality... Rolling Eyes


5D + my Distagon 1.4/35
I can do (and did) everything with it. Landscape. Portrait. Street photos. Night photos. Macro photos. Even tele-like photos, if I use it wide open and crop the picture in the centre.

The Distagon 1.4/35 is sharp, it has wide aperture so to isolate a subject if needed, it never flares even against spotlights, it can focus near, and when used at hyperfocal (f/8 to 3 mt focus distance), you can point and shoot and not care about focusing.

I could only have that one lens and the 5D, and still be happy.
-


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Retro,

Congrats for the picture!. Since your SD9 is on the show, I suppose you've used the SD10... Wink

I hope there were no symbolic intentions in putting the SD9 in the middle of the lemons...

BTW, I'd like to ask you a question about the Sigmas SD* dSLRs.

I see you use the MFLenses with it, and I'd like to know what kind of resources provide these cameras for manual focusing, i.e., have they some kind of split image focusing screen?. Or maybe focus confirmation?.
I understand that the light measurement is done through the lens, so not affecting the fact you use a MF Lens.
I'm quite curious about them and about the Foveon sensor.

Jes.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
If I need compromise I grab a compact zoom camera. With SLR I never make compromise. I tried 28-210 Kiron, but result wansn't better than a comact cam.


Noise above base ISO is always going to be better on a DSLR than on a compact. DSLRs tend to have the same noise at about ISO 1600 as a compact has at around 200...

Still the convenience of compactness means that a Canon A530 (with RAW hack) tends to be my "go everywhere" camera. My Nikon FG with a Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 is my film portable of choice.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mjkerpan wrote:
Noise above base ISO is always going to be better on a DSLR than on a compact. DSLRs tend to have the same noise at about ISO 1600 as a compact has at around 200...


In a situation where you need as much DOF as possible at a given FOV, they are about even. For a given FOV, a 5x crop digicam at f/2.8 has the same DOF as a 1.6x crop dSLR has at f/8, which aperture difference equals the 3 stop sensitivity difference between ISO 200 and ISO 1600. You can utilize the sensitivity difference only if you can live with the reduced DOF, sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot, there are times when a maximal DOF is crucial. An FF SLR loses still another stop needing f/11 at ISO 3200. Everything depends.

Veijo


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CL with Nokton 40mm 1.4 . It is small, light, and I just can't leave it at home. On the 40D I like the Zuiko 24 f2. It is the best choice for my "normal lens" on this 1.6 cropped sensor. Being one of those folks who prefers a 35 or 40mm lens for a normal. I would say it covers similar categories to Orios 5D and 35 1.4. The Zuiko 24 f2 is not as sharp wide open nor does it have as nice a 3D potential. Cool


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vilva wrote:
Here is my present all-in-one, well, one of many.



EOS350D with 4.5/5.25" Cooke Aviar and a self-made lens shade after some cosmetic and tactile modding with soft leather.


Now guys, look at this classy piece of equipment. Well done, Veijo!


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Jesito:
Quote:
Congrats for the picture!. Since your SD9 is on the show, I suppose you've used the SD10... Wink

I own the Sigma SA300 (analogue), the Sigma SD9 and the Sigma SD10.
But this photo I made with my beloved old Canon G3.

Quote:
I hope there were no symbolic intentions in putting the SD9 in the middle of the lemons...

No. Not at all.
I bought the Sigma SD9 after my Sigma SD10 as a kind of security, if my SD10 would get damaged. Up to this time I bought several Sigma-Zooms and didn´t want to see them as orphants after an "accident". I could get the SD9 in a mint condition for a very low price. SD9 and SD10 are nearly the same. But after a short time I prefered the SD9.

Quote:
BTW, I'd like to ask you a question about the Sigmas SD* dSLRs.

With the SD9 grew my passion for M42-lenses this year.
Using M42-lenses exceeds the my range of usable lenses enormously.
I can afford first class primes with it.
The M42-lenses are much smaller then the Sigma-lenses.
And the M42-lenses look super cool.

Manual focussing is not so easy with DSLR´s, but:
- the viewfinder of the SD9/10 is bright.
- I use a viewfinder-loupe.
- the camera supports the focus-point with a green light and an accoustic "beep" (focus confirmation).

One could buy a (very expensive) split image focusing screen for the SD9/10, but I refrained from such a solution, because you can produce a back- or frontfocus when you don´t install it correct.


Quote:
I understand that the light measurement is done through the lens, so not affecting the fact you use a MF Lens.

Correct.
There are existing two metering methods.

- The conventional method would be the M-Modus, using an external tool (I own an old "Gossen Lunasix"). The Exif-data then record correctly the used values.

- The other way is the A-Modus. Here it is very helpful to use a "preset" aperture:
The SD 9 deserves a pre-selection of aperture 5.6 under the "A"-Modus.
The SD10 deserves a pre-selection of aperture 2.8 under the "A"-Modus.
The SD14 deserves a pre-selection of aperture 1.0 under the "A"-Modus.
Then the cameras will chose the appropriate time.
The "real" aperture is what I physically adjusted at my lens, but in the EXIF-data will show the pre-selected apertures (which is "not true"). The time-value in the EXIF-data will be the correct one. So I note my manually selected aperture-values if I want to document them. The warnings of my camera about under- or overexposition has no meaning. They are an artefact of this A-method.

Quote:
I'm quite curious about them and about the Foveon sensor.

The Foveon-Sensor or let us say the Sigma DSLR´s are not so outstanding as stated by some users, but they are much better as claimed by critics.
In fact the SD9/10 produce very sharp results. Due to the case that this cameras are not mainstream-products, you can get thet for very low cost. Much lower, than their "real" price should be.

Last edited by Retro on Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Retro,
Funny you should ask this particular question, because by some incredible co-incidence, I just got my all-in-one combination camera/lens.
Nikon D6 64MP full frame digital camera and zoom-Nikkor 10~400 f2 IF ED VR lens with 1:1 macro. Only cost $87,000.00 US. In your dreams!
Seriously, I think what you ask for doesn't exist, and likely never will. Certainly not in my world anyway.
I've got a whole pile of manual focus film lenses and cameras (what exactly was that "digital" camera business you were referring to?), and take exactly what I'll need to get the shot, whether its on the street, in the garden or the forest.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear rbsinto: I agree with you.
Bear in mind my " Rolling Eyes " while speaking of a "all-in-one".
I hold it with Attila: I love to have a DSLR with a wide range of possibilities (wide angle; super-tele; bellow etc). And it is a joy to make decided choices for special purposses. The area of DSLR-photography is vast and exciting. I don´t want a boring "point and shoot".

Nevertheless there are events (e.g. trekking) at which I like to have a radically reduced but also versative as possible gear. The first picture above shows my reduced "egg-producing-wool-milk-pig" (that´s a german idiom for wanting everything). For such purposses I also do not want a big backpack but a small and cool Crumpler-bag.

This question I did not understand:
Quote:
what exactly was that "digital" camera business you were referring to?


PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Retro,
I have heard the rumours that there are cameras which use a different medium beside film to capture images, but I don't believe them to be true. There are also silly stories being circulated about lenses for SLR's that focus by themselves! They are just Fairy Tales to frighten young children at bedtime. Nothing more
I shoot with manual focus, mechanical, Nikon film cameras from the twentith century, so your reference to DSLR's means nothing to me.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
psst. . . rbsinto. Those rumours are true Shocked I've actually handled a couple . . . my wife's p&s and my stepson's Nikon DSLR (I guess D is for don't have a spot for film . . .) Laughing Rolling Eyes Wink

I don't know if its my being out of practice for a long time, but I can't seem to answer this one, as best all round can be equated to the best compromise. This may fly in the face of what I just said, but I find at times if I'm just "snapping some pics" as opposed to a dedicated foray into photography, I'm likely using one of my Tamron zooms.

Actually there is a best all round camera, only problem it is N format - no place for film, data card, or download cable . . . the human eye.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sort of Jay's "camp" on this. If I was to go all-around and have something that would give me adequate quality AND versatility, I would have to go with my Tamron SP 35-80 zoom. Shocked

Actually, I didn't really mean "adequate" quality for the Tamron above. It's actually what I would call "excellent" quality. The more I use the 35-80, the more I like it. I like the focal lengths available, I like the sharp images, and I like the colors the lens gives me.

If I went to a prime only, it would be the Sekor 55/1.4 on my Revueflex 3003.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mc-Variozenitar 25-45 K mount or Soligor C/D 28-80 K ("macro" abilities), Tak 35mm 3,5 "K" , Noflexar 3,5/35 macro , Flek 35 /2,4.
Choice depending on the weather ....


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@rbsinto:
Excuse me, but you have a queer style of posting. Not very constructive. That should not be the way in which we hobby-photographers communicate with each other.
If you are an experienced photographer, you have my respect. And I am interested in every opinion. But not being ironical.
So please say what you have to say. But remember politeness. Then I will listen honestly.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob, I have seen your work and you have certainly made the most of your gear. You are a fine photographer. I agree with Retro however. Your style of posting is crass and not constructive. This community has a culture of politeness in our encouragement and criticism. That being said I will offer you this. I also prefer film for B+W but have recently made the switch to Digital for color work. It has many advantages that that do not become apparent until you actually use the medium. With advantages of course comes some compromises and film has many of those as well. Like many others here the dslr has expanded the methods we are able to photgraph. The learning curve can not be matched with "film". Speed of processing helps young photogs like myself develop our skill and technique quickly at an affordable cost. This alone legitimizes the digital medium. During his time Ansel adams used every trick in the book to create his photos. If he was alive and working today you can be sure he would have a digital back on at least one of his cams. Personally, I think you are missing some opportunities by not giving it a try. Smile

Andy


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sunshine wrote:
Personally, I think you are missing some opportunities by not giving it a try

A friend of mine shot hasselblad and 35mm film developed in his studio
I try for more than 1 year to convert him to digital.
He say that the covers he do for magazine and the catalogs of products are better with film.
I show him same shot in digital & film and he say digital is flat.
I tried to show him that my digital is the same than medium format and he insulted me.
I gave him my 400D in hope to convert him but nothing help
He use it 2 times for school shootings and he was even surprised that parents order a lot of those flat digital photos
Now he use it for small photos inside magazine but he don't want to use it for cover or full page
The truth is that I know that film is better but I make only a lot of stupid 'test shots' and it is not economical for me
Some people still believe that vinyl is better than cd quality


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I still like to shoot on film, but I mostly prefer to shoot digitally, because there are plenty of advantages and no real disadvantages any more (at least not for me).
But everything has its place and should be respected. It's the dogmatism that creates problems - and misunderstandings. Confused


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lots of people are "blind" they are believe they are better photographer if use $$$ tool in Canon L blah balah or Hasselblad or Linhof etc. A good photographer virtually independent from extra tools. If you remember for some really, really nice pictures on this forum like Maxim's bike or Bill's 10 USD lenses macro etc , etc this photos are good as or better than some pictures taken with $$$ glasses. I believe to take nice pictures need good imagine about subject + good lens , camera just right after this one.Both film and DSLR can be superb and super crap depend only just for people who is stand behind that.My wedding pictures taken by "pro" photographer he used Canon 30D and Hasselblad. Hasselblad picture was garbage , Canon are fine I believe this guy can't handle Hasselblad as well and he has no good imagine about photography even if pro.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some true words, my friend.
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