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What I miss and which liquids?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: What I miss and which liquids? Reply with quote
Hey Hi,
I apologize for being lost some time but my life is nice but very busy (well I take quite a lot shots within the day though).

I would like to finalize my gear for start developing my film. I need your help for two things
A. See my list of the hardware I already have and see what is missing and
B. Help me buy liquids

A. What I currently have


so what do you think is missing from the list?

B. Chemicals.
I have decided that for now that is my starting point to basically develop to stay to ilford HP5 as I have read that these films can really tolerate abuse.
If I want more fine grained shots as second option fp4 ilford comes into play.

Are there chemicals for those two films, ilford hp5 and fp4? Something simple and straightforward at the beginning.

I would like to thank you for your reply

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
you need the bottles to keep the chemicals, preferably ones that you can squeeze the air out

edit:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5141-Arista-Air-Evac-Bottle-1-Liter

btw freestylephoto is a great shop


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: What I miss and which liquids? Reply with quote
alaios wrote:
I also got from a good forum member a black tank that has two rockets inside


you are not in Ukraine - right? Smile


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cool thanks. I guess two would be enough or more?

Alex


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A clothes peg is good enough to hang the film - oh and one on the bottom.

ID11 is probably the best developer for your films.

I use normal plastic water bottles and squeeze the air out. Concertina bottles must be very carefully washed out and always used for the same chemical each time to prevent cross contamination.

Any fixer will do but I guess Ilfofix. Thats what I use.

Just use the developer as the leaflet tells you. Remember +/- ½° isn't going to kill your film (nor will 1°) A few seconds longer or shorter dev time isn't going to kill it either.

I developed an unbranded film for 10 minutes and it came out just fine. Its really hard to bugger up a b&w film.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,
I will be able to order the missing parts tomorrow... I just wonder that there are times that people here say that I freak out a lot and is too easy... the other day I get terms about
"Avoiding oxidation" "compressible bottles to take air out"

Jesus! I am a university freak for each new keyword I have to do two days of research.

Is the process simple or not?
Embarassed


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:
Is the process simple or not?


yes

basically you can develop a film by just having two bottles, tank, some sort of clock and a dark toilet

but the more you invest into precision equipment (I don't) the better and more predictable is the process

here is an example of the unpredictable one

http://forum.mflenses.com/too-old-look-t53218.html


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its easy as anything. Its not rocket science. Everytime someone mentions something new in a reply I can imagine you googling it. Dont stress Alex, just dev your first film.

You havent learned to walk yet but you are planning your first marathon. Take it easy you have all you need just go for it.

Oxidisation. Thats when oxygen is dissolved into the developer reducing its potency. Although I have kept made-up solution for nearly a year in a wine bottle with no ill effects. And the developer had been used and re-used.

Once again: (for one film)

A: Load your FP4+ into the tank in the dark, put lid on and switch on light
B: Pour in 400ml working solution of ID11 at 20°C
C: Develop for the prescribed time (11 minutes if I remember correctly but the info with the dev will tell you)
D: Invert the tank twice every 30 seconds or so
E: Pour out developer (keep it for another film)
F: pour in cold water and rinse - 2 tanks full should do
G:Pour in fixer. agitate then leave for about 10 minutes (not critical 5 mins would do it)
H: pour out fixer and keep it.
I: Take off tank lid and pour in water from tap. Aim it down the hole in the middle. Wash like this for 10 minutes.
J:Take the film out of the spiral taking care not to touch the surface inside the curl.
K:Hang it up and let it dry.



PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi some questions for the A-E process so I can order today first part.

I was thinking as developer to buy ilfotec dd-x as can also process my 3200 ilford films
see here page 2: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201071394723115.pdf

the I saw the price Razz Razz
http://www.fotokoch.de/34299.html?redirect=34299&partnerid=10331
27 euros is not cheap. At a second thought I saw that I have to dillute it with water 1:4. If the tank you gave me is 400ml I would need 100ml of liquid.. which means I can use the bottle only 10 times Sad
27 euros divided by 10 gives 2,7 euros per development.


then I googled the powerd id-11 that is very cheap 8 euros for 1000ml. Now we are talking... but on the pdf I gave above does not look to be the preferred one for high isos.

Perceptol as powder looks though that can handle both three films I want to develop. The Fp4, the Hp5 and the ilford 3200. Although here I need someone comments.

Regarding pouring out the developer. I guess that instead of having collapsible bottles if I know that my tank can get 400ml in total then a half liter (500ml) coke bottle would do the job without leaving excess air and keeping it simpler.
How many times I can use then the same developer over and over?

Tomorrow morning I am ordering developer and the I move from F letter towards the end.

Have fun
Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:
I was thinking as developer to buy ilfotec dd-x as can also process my 3200 ilford films


http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1921599-Ilford-Ilfotec-DD-X-Film-Developer-1-Liter-to-make-5-Liters

freestylephoto is pretty cheap if you can order a lot of stuff

they have a really good range of products so you can check the price of almost any product


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi I am updating the list

2 times these http://www.ebay.de/itm/301035707135?var=600177151762&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
1 black bag http://www.ebay.de/itm/380744959976?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (rumors say that there is a black cat hidden inside) and
1 thermometer http://www.ebay.de/itm/121090555715?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I also got from a good forum member a black tank that has two rockets inside


new additions to the list:
Developer DD-X as can process all my three files, FP4, HP5 and the ilford 3200
https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/ILF1934074/

Fixer:
https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/ILF1984262/ (There is also one more version of ilford but I guess both should work)


I am not buying
-bottles: I have to live with I already have. I am thinking for thick plastic 500ml of coke. One for developer one for fixer. If I got it right I can reuse both
-Hanging clips. I will bend carefully a paper clip combined with some elastic bands and that should be allo
-Liquid for stop bath. Water should be fine. I only wonder if hard water can make some problems...


If I am not wrong nothing major is missing which means that I can practice loading the film in the bag some times before my two missing liquids arrive.

Please feel free to comment


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't use thermometer to measure liquid temperature.

I just keep the liquids in the same room I do developing. I know approximately the temperature with some standard thermometer. I had one in my Nokia 5210 phone which I used as a clock too.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Alex

Squeezy bottles are not essential. I don't do a lot of processing and I've got by perfectly well without them. Ilford say your diluted
solutions will be OK for at least a month in a half-full Coke bottles, but I've used 6-month old mixed fixer with no problems. The opened
concentrate bottles should be used within 6 months but, again, I've extended that as well. Eventually the liquids will begin to crystallise
and that's when they need replacing.

I used to use DD-X but it's only available in expensive 1 litre bottles and the dilution rate is 1:4. I'm now using Ilfotec LC29, which is
specifically designed for low volume and occasional use. It's a highly concentrated liquid mixed 1:19 - 1:29 with water, and it comes in
half litre bottles. It works out a lot cheaper. and I'm very pleased with the results. I recommend you try it next time.

Oh, and I use the clock on the microwave as a timer! Smile


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
How did you find the LC29? How do you know that it work with all your Ilford films? I also was looking for a cheaper alternative of DD-X but I have read that it can be reused after dilluted many times... Does not this reduce cost a lot?

Regards
A


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I said, I'm very pleased with LC29, the results are no different to DD-X in my judgement. Copied from the web page:
"ILFOTEC LC29 is designed to complement the features of all ILFORD films giving fine grain negatives with good sharpness characteristics and image quality."

I've used it with Pan F+, FP4+ and HP4+. HP4 was a little too grainy for my taste and Pan F was very high contrast (as always) but that's
the nature of the films, not the developer. This shot was taken on FP4+ and developed in LC29


All the Ilford liquid developers can be reused in diluted form. The information about this is in the factsheet:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427124733149.pdf

The reason DD-X is more expensive for me is that it took me too long to get through a 1 litre bottle. I used only half the bottle before it
became too old and I had to dump it.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
very very good shot Smile
how did you scan it btw?
I am printing the pdf file and I will read it on my train ride

Alex


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:
very very good shot Smile
how did you scan it btw?
I am printing the pdf file and I will read it on my train ride

Alex

Thanks Alex, I amazed myself when I developed that negative that there was so little blurring. The carousel was actually moving pretty
fast at the time. It was taken with a Super Takumar 1.4/50 on a Spotmatic II and scanned on my Epson V-700 flatbed scanner.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Had a first fast look on the pdf file. There it says that LC29 is a one shot liquid and shoot be discarded after first film development Razz


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Film Develop Reply with quote
I am just getting started developing and printing after 20 years without a darkroom, so learning all over again. Looks like your list is pretty complete, I would add a 10mL graduate.

Take a look at the 'The Massive Dev Chart' at http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php. There are all sorts of Film / Developer combinations.

For film, I "one shot" the developer. Dilute the developer just prior to use, use once, then dispose. For mixing, I use a 10mL graduate and a 1200 mL graduate. Some dilutions run to 100:1 (99 parts water, 1 part developer). You need a smaller graduate to be fairly accurate.

"The Darkroom Cookbook, 3rd Edition" has up to date information on chemicals and film, as well as darkroom tips and procedures.
"The Film Developing Cookbook" is an extension mainly devoted to film. Both are available at Amazon.

Here in the US, Hydrogen Peroxide comes in 1 quart brown plastic bottles for less than 1 US Dollar. I poured out the liquid, washed the bottles, labeled and use them.

For the manufacturer's stock developers, I put glass beads in the bottles to keep the level full to the brim.

Phil


PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:
Had a first fast look on the pdf file. There it says that LC29 is a one shot liquid and shoot be discarded after first film development Razz


Ilford liquid developers can certainly be re-used. This is copied from that factsheet:

"For the highest image quality ILFOTEC DD-X 1+4 and ILFOTEC LC29 1+9 and 1+19 should also
be used as one–shot developers. However for greater economy they can be reused to process
either a number of films individually or multiple films in batches. The table below gives the number
of 135/36 or 120 roll films a litre of ILFOTEC DD-X 1+4 and ILFOTEC LC29 1+9 and 1+19 can
process provided that the developer is reused.

ILFOTEC DD-X 1+4: 10 films per litre
ILFOTEC LC29 1+9: 10 films per litre
ILFOTEC LC29 1+19: 5 films per litre

They recommend extending the development times depending on the number of films.

In practice I usually use it as a one-shot, but that's because I'm only doing one film at a time. If I have two or three film to develop I
will reuse the developer, but I never store used developer for another time.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you re-use a tank full of developer add about 10% to dev times next time. Hard water makes no difference to stop bath, perhaps use a 10% solution of white vinegar to chemically neutralise the developer if you are worried.

A spot of dish wash liquid on the tip of your finger mixed with 500ml water is enough to reduce surface tension do the final rinse of your wash with this solution.

A Coke bottle is fine to store the solutions and its not hard to squeeze the air out.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi.
I am sorry for keeping this discussion going for all this time.. I had in the mean time to support my wife final exams (so taking over at household with the little monster) and then go to a business trip.

This are the items I currently have at home


2 times these http://www.ebay.de/itm/301035707135?var=600177151762&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
1 black bag http://www.ebay.de/itm/380744959976?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (rumors say that there is a black cat hidden inside) and
1 thermometer http://www.ebay.de/itm/121090555715?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I also got from a good forum member a black tank that has two rockets inside


Developer DD-X as can process all my three files, FP4, HP5 and the ilford 3200 (did not buy the lc-29 for now but perhaps would do after getting used with the DD-X)
https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/ILF1934074/

Fixer:
https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/ILF1984262/ (There is also one more version of ilford but I guess both should work)


Last think it was to buy perhaps a graduate. What is that? What I need it for?
Do I have also to do something special that the water in my neighrborhood is damn salty...hmm cant find the English word.

Please give me green light and by the end of this week you will see my first developed films

Have fun
Alex


PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alaios wrote:
Please give me green light


You have your green light Alex. A graduate is another name for a measuring cylinder. For DD-X the 500ml cylinder will be fine, but if
you do try LC29 then a smaller and narrower cylinder would probably be better for measuring very small quantities.

I think you probably mean the water is high in calcium. We call it hard water and low calcium is soft. No there is no need to do anything
special, but put a tiny drop of liquid detergent in the tank for the very last washing process. That will remove surface tension and
prevent any calcium deposit.

Be careful with those rockets in the tank, they might explode. You'd be far better off using proper spirals. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Be careful with those rockets in the tank, they might explode. You'd be far better off using proper spirals. Very Happy


I'm pretty sure they were spirals when I sent them.

Green light Alex go go go!!!! the hardest part of developing your first film is getting the bloody thing on the spiral. I hope you've been practicing!!!
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